Thursday, January 21, 2010

5.16/17 The Incident

Follow along! The gargantuan episode guide for “Follow the Leader” is in Finding Lost — Season 5, pp. 225-255 (30 pages?! sheesh...) along with chapters on Jacob's statue, Flannery O'Connor's "Everything That Rises Must Converge," and a list of questions that still need to be answered in S6.

The end of the road. Until February 2nd. And what a finale it was…

Fun things I noticed:
• That opening scene is simply magnificent. I didn’t realize how many times I’d watched it until I found myself saying every word along with both of the characters. The more I see it, the more I’m starting to become convinced that the Man in Black is actually the good guy. But I wouldn’t bet on it. I wouldn’t bet on anything on Lost.
• Notice Jacob touches Kate’s freckles? Maybe Sawyer’s the reincarnation of Jacob!!
• A big question for season 6: What is Lapidus a candidate for? Will he play a much bigger role in the mythology?
• Jack Shephard = WORST. SHOT. EVER.
• No matter how many times I see this ep, I still find myself yelling at the TV, “Jack! Tell Sawyer that Sayid is BLEEDING OUT IN THE VAN!!!”
• Ben the manipulator is given the ultimate manipulation. What an amazing scene where he walks down that corridor in the statue toward Jacob’s sanctum.
• Radzinsky yelling, “Who’s this?!” when the Dharma van comes zooming around the corner always makes me laugh.
• So, I’m watching this and my 5-year-old comes down just as Juliet is holding onto Sawyer’s hand and is about to fall. She clearly wants to see what’s going on, and as she’s coming into the room (she’s SUPPOSED to be in bed, but here is the first of many excuses to stay up later). First she walks in as Juliet is talking to Sawyer in the jungle about why she’s siding with Jack.
My daughter: “Who’s that?”
Me: “That’s Juliet. She’s with Sawyer, but I think Sawyer is in love with another woman instead.”
“Then why is he with her?”
“Well, the other woman wasn’t there, and I think he really believes he loves her, and he’s with her, but he’s always sort of loved that other woman.”
“So why isn’t he with her?”
“Shouldn’t you be in bed?” She disappears.
Comes back when Juliet is dangling for her life. “Why is she hanging like that?”
“I need you to go to bed, OK?”
“Who is holding her hand?”
“That’s Sawyer, he doesn’t want her to fall.”
“Because he loves her.”
“I thought you said he was in love with the other girl.”
“Well, yeah, but… well, he loves her, but he just loves the other girl differently. The other girl is also trying to stop her from falling.”
“But I thought you said he didn’t really love her?”
“Shouldn’t you be in bed?”

• We've discussed this before on another post, but what if when Jacob touches Locke and Locke opens his eyes, the Man in Black is actually inside him? Then Jacob's, "I'm sorry this happened to you" was actually addressed to MiB, and not Locke. That would mean Locke was dead from the get-go. Personally, I don't think that's the case, since it would mean the guy we've come to know and love/hate over the past 5 years was never actually the same guy as the one in the flashbacks, and I think that would be devastating to find out.
• I honestly think Ben’s speech is one of the most heartbreaking of the series. This man is a liar through and through, but I truly believe he’s being 100% sincere in this scene.
• “What ABOUT you?” I think these are three of the harshest words in the series. Ugh. Why does Jacob say that? That’s a big question for me going into S6.

And one last little thing. One of my readers, Jono, sent me this illustration he made as a possible opening for season 6, and I thought it was hilarious. :) (I'll post this over on the main blog, too.)

Wow. We’re done. I’ll post a S5 rundown soon but… wow. I can’t believe we did it!

And now… we head forth into Season 6!!


Marebabe said...

Do you remember how exciting it was when the title for this finale episode was first announced? That was fun. “Far out! Let’s have some answers!”

Every recap and/or analysis that I’ve ever seen for this episode at least mentions the fact that Jacob was wearing gloves when he visited Ilana in that hospital (Third World refugee center?), as if he cannot and will not touch her. But if we assume that he is avoiding the possibility of any skin-to-skin contact with her (and that’s all it is – an assumption), what should we make of the fact that (as far as we could see) Jacob had no skin-to-skin contact with Sayid, Locke, Jin, or Hurley? Each of these men got a touch on the shoulder, and there was always a shirt or jacket that prevented direct contact. It was different with the other four: Jacob touched the tip of Kate’s nose, lightly touched fingers with Jack and Young James, and thanks to the design of Sun’s dress, his hand was able to rest on her bare shoulder. What does any of this mean? Until they spell it out for us in S6, we really don’t have a clue! Jacob may have been wearing those black gloves because his hands were cold. I’ve heard that Russian winters are chilly. And y’know what else? I just realized, he was dressed for cold weather, with an overcoat and scarf.

I don’t think we have any proof that the ship seen on the horizon in the opening scene is the Black Rock. So many fans have called it that when referring to this scene, that I started to wonder if maybe it was actually named in the script for “The Incident”. So I went to Lostpedia and checked. All it says in the script is that a “several-masted sailing vessel” is slowly approaching the Island. Dr. Leslie Arzt theorized that it was probably a tsunami that pushed the Black Rock so far inland, and I think that’s a good guess. I figure it was either that, or one heck of a storm, or some of Jacob’s magic.

I’ve seen pictures of the various Egyptian gods, and I agree that, in this episode, the giant statue looked most like Sobek. So the reason that the writers and ABC had for insisting that it’s Taweret is beyond me. It still feels like an inconsistency or a downright mistake, and I get a little irritated just thinking about it. Fine, whatever.

When Sawyer shot the submarine radio, all I could think of was how badly (and how long) their ears would be ringing from that! The noise of gunfire is even worse in small spaces.

Marebabe said...

Nikki, you mentioned Young James’ uncle saying, “What’s done is done”, and the fact that Sawyer echoed that sentiment to Juliet in “The Little Prince” when she asked why he didn’t go up and talk to Kate when he saw her helping with Aaron’s birth. Well, I got to thinking about that again, and even though it’s a bit late to be discussing something from episode 4, I’ve gotta ask: What on earth would he have said to Kate in that moment? “Um, this is a little awkward. I’m Sawyer from the future, and I’ve been blooping all over the spacetime continuum..." Much easier, and probably way smarter, to stay hidden in the shadows and just observe.

One of the most pleasant surprises of the finale was hearing Vincent bark and seeing him run up. And I never noticed before, in the wide shot, that Sawyer fed him a doggie treat. LOL

Some fans have called the ring of ash “white”. But it’s really a pretty deep shade of gray. And I’ve never understood why they burned the cabin. I guess they either wanted someone to be homeless or prisonless. (But which is it?) We still know so little about Ilana and her merry band of Shadow Seekers. One more thing about the cabin that I never noticed before. Remember when Locke had his dream encounter with Horace as he was chopping down trees for the cabin? That was meant to suggest that it was gonna be a log cabin. But I finally noticed in this episode, the cabin is made of milled lumber.

Nikki, I really enjoyed reading your discussion of Jack’s relationship with his dad. There are, after all, two sides to every conflict. “It would seem Jack wasn’t looking for his father to stop treating him differently; what he wanted was BETTER treatment than Christian would have given any other student. Maybe Jack is seeing something in Christian that’s not actually there. Is it possible Christian has always been proud of his son, but Jack was too angry to ever notice?” I feel like Mr. Spock, here. “Fascinating.”

OK, this was intense. During the Jack/Sawyer brawl, when Sawyer demanded, “Will you stop?!” and Jack said “No”, I think Sawyer was commencing to beat Jack to DEATH, literally. He didn’t have a gun with him at that moment, but he had his doubled-up fists, and he figured he’d make do. When Juliet showed up and got Sawyer to stop, it was in the nick of time for Jack.

Marebabe said...

Y’know those security questions they ask at airports about your bags? I’m thinking of Hurley and the guitar case. I agree, Nikki, he probably opened up the case and knew what was inside it. But I hope he had a story ready to go concerning it, because the dude sucks at lying.

I give you the understatement of the entire series to date: When NotLocke was talking to Ben about Jacob, he said, “I know it won’t be easy, but THINGS WILL CHANGE ONCE HE’S GONE.” In a couple weeks, we will begin to learn how much things changed.

I really don’t cry much over TV and movies, at least not at the same things that get to other viewers. For instance, when Kate left Aaron in that hotel room, not a tear. (Please don’t be scandalized by that!) So, imagine my surprise in that powerful moment when Juliet fell down the deep, deep hole, and Sawyer broke down sobbing. I was wrecked, sniffling and sobbing myself, and it took the entire commercial break that followed to pull myself together and calm down. Seeing it again on this rewatch, it still wipes me out, but not as horrifically as the first time, obviously.

Another old movie reference (I’ve got a million of ‘em). When Ilana said, “Open it up”, meaning the big crate, there was the sound of about a dozen guns being cocked all at once. It’s a great sound, and it always reminds me of the end of “The Blues Brothers”, when Jake and Elwood are finally caught.

Nikki, you always wrap up every chapter with the section called “Any Questions?”. For this finale, I can just imagine that you were tempted to change that to “So Many Questions”. It’s just bizarre how many questions are skidding around in our brains as we anticipate the rip-roaring final season. And now seems like the appropriate moment to say: Deepest thanks and appreciation for hosting this rewatch. It has been enlightening and educational, supremely entertaining, and I’ve made many friends here. I’m so glad to have had this experience. God bless you.

Gillian Whitfield said...

I love this episode. It trumps all the other finales in my opinion. My expression at the end of the episode, was shocked, then impressed, then disappointed because we had to wait for what seemed eternity.

Personally, I think that Jacob said "What ABOUT you?" to sacrifice himself. He's the good guy. If he's the leader of the Others, and they claim that they are the good guys, then, he's . . . the best good guy?

I remember watching this episode all the way back in May 2009. I was stunned by the time that Juliet hit the bomb. I thought about it until at LEAST midnight. Then I woke up 6 1/2 hours later. The next day, all I could talk about was Lost. I even wrote two blog posts on it that day, too.

I wonder what will happen when Not-Locke and Ben come out of the chamber, with Ben covered in blood, and Not-Locke looking sinister? And with Real-Locke's body on the beach, Richard and Ilana will be having a LOT of questions.

I ♥ ♥ ♥ the Jack vs. Sawyer fight. I have been waiting for it since season 1.

We only have 12 days left!!!!

paleoblues said...

The MIB called Jacob “My friend”. Their conversation in the opening is reminiscent of the reveal at the end ot my all time favorite Twilight Zone episode “The Monsters Are Due At Maple Street”.

MIB is basically saying to Jacob “You keep bringing groups of people to the island. You change a few things, mess with their heads, chaos ensues, they destroy themselves. It always ends the same.” Jacob says each time there’s some progress and that it only ends once . What is that end? Do we assume it is positive for the humans? Or is Jacob trying to make progress toward the self-destruction of the human race?

In “The Monsters Are Due At Maple Street” someone or something is manipulating the electricity (electromagnetism) on Maple Street. This messes with the locals heads. Chaos ensues. Charlie shoots someone. They begin to destroy themselves. In the reveal we discover two aliens outside their flying saucer high up in the hills looking down on Maple Street. One alien is explaining to the other that is always turns out the same. We come to a town, change a few variables, mess with peoples heads, chaos ensures, they destroy each other. We can go from town to town doing the same thing and let the humans destroy themselves. We can take over the planet without lifting a finger. (Except to flip the electrical switch).

In 1951 Serling also wrote a radio play called “The Button Pushers”. After earthlings destroy Earth, two aliens have the following discussion:

#1: Ah, Verus....Have you seen the little planet Earth?
#2: Why no, come to think of it , Felovius I haven’t seen it ...In a few hundred light years. Seems to have just disappeared all of a sudden.
#1: Ah, then I win my bet.
#2: Bet?
#1: Yes, I bet the keeper of the North Star that the little Earth would destroy itself before the next billion years had gone by.
They go on to discuss that the reason it was destroyed was because it had humans on it.

Continuing my obsession with objects on the island, when Jacob leaves the guitar case in the cab with Hurley listen to the way he says “It’s not my guitar”. He doesn’t say “It’s not MY guitar”, he says “It’s not my GUITAR”, emphasis on the work guitar, as if it’s not a guitar at all. If there is something else in there, like maybe a radio transmitter (to start transmitting his numbers) or a miniature time machine (so Scotty (Desmond) can “beam us up”) or even a phaser (again, think Star Trek), I’m asking in advance “How did he get it through security at the airport?”.

Other objects that have “constant”ly appeared include Jack’s/Christian’s/Ray’s watch;
Kate’s/Tommy’s toy airplane (where is it now?); Charlie’s ring, as well as Jin’s, both of which Sun now has; Sawyer’s letter (which was ripped up but not destroyed); a compass.
I’m reminded of the game “Clue”. To win you have to maneuver the right PERSON with the right OBJECT to the right PLACE, all at the same TIME.

If it was the MIB in Jacob’s cabin maybe he was saying to Locke “Help me....kill Jacob.”

When Lapidus is shown Locke’s body in the metal crate he says “terrific” the same way Charlie did in the pilot after first hearing the monster.

Sawyer shoots a gun inside the enclosed space of a metallic submarine and nobody even flinches? Noise? Ricochet?

Thanks for listening, Enjoy Season 6 everybody. I have to go finish watching Willard. See you on the other side.

paleoblues said...

I wasn't going to say any more but:

Marebabe: Glad to know you and I are still thinking about that guitar. Thanks again for turning me on to YouTube (the broken guitar videos). We seem to notice a lot of the same things including the shot heard round the submarine. It's been fun.

Nikki: A month ago I had never been on a blog before. I didn't own any of your books. I have now read them all cover to cover more than once. I am now obsessed (in a good way). I have truly enjoyed this experience and just want to say thank you.

The Question Mark said...

What an episode!
Okay, here's the theory I've been ranting about regarding Season 6:

In Back to the Future Part II, Marty ends up causing a bit of trouble while time-traveling, and next thing he knows he's created an alternate universe, a "Dark 1985", where the villain biff is rich, powerful, and married to Marty's mother.
Well, I believe that the same thing has happened to the island. The 2007 that Sun, ben & Frank are currently inhabiting, the same 2007 where Jacob has just been killed, is "Dark 2007". Remember, the houses in New Otherton" still have all the Dharma signs on them and they look like they've been through hell. But normally, doesn't New Otherton always look prisitine, & completely devoid of Dharma propaganda? It just looks like the Island has been through some kind of hell, and somewhere down the line a "Dark Reality" has been created, parallel to the reality we're familiar with. I believe it may be in this same dark reality that Oceanic 815 does NOT crash.
the only question is, how & when is this Dark 2007 created? Well, I've got no clue, but my money's on Locke turning the donkey wheel.

Also, there's something REALLY macabre about the way MiB says "No thanks, I just ate" after Jacob offers him the fish. It reminds me of an old-school werewolf movie.

Thanks a million for the rewatch, Nikki! I'm looking forward to experiencing the final season with all of you!

Marebabe said...

@Question Mark: Ooh, way to make up a theory that's meaty AND juicy! I like it a lot. And LOL about the "I just ate" reference.

humanebean said...

I realized as the opening scene began just how much I had been looking forward to this particular episode for SO long. I could watch Jacob & MIB utter their scant lines of dialogue a dozen times just to reexamine the subtle inflections in each one. I come away convinced that Jacob & MIB are neither good nor evil but somewhere along the spectrum in between, each perhaps believing that they are doing what is necessary ... like so many others (pun intended) on the Island.

Jacob's final line to Ben: viewing it again this time I feel that he says "What about you" not in a cruel but rather a sad and resigned way, as if he has known all along that it would come to this. I think Jacob is genuinely empathetic towards Ben but mournful that, despite being reminded that he has a "choice", he knows what Ben will do ... and that nothing he else he could say would prevent Ben's action and the consequences thereby.

"They're coming". Wow. Less than two weeks to go. They can't get here fast enough.

Ali Bags said...

yay, we've done it! I am currently procrastinating like crazy with my exam marking and wish I had the same dedication to work as I have for reading these posts.

SonshineMusic said...

Oh goodness. I can hardly believe we're here already. When we saw this episode the first time my sister and I sat in shock, with our mouths hanging open, for about ten minutes. Then we started talking non-stop for I don't even know how long. Then I came on here as soon as Nikki had posted and we talked for DAYS and we posted our own blog posts and went crazy. And the episode STILL blows my mind.

I have to say that the rewatch has made this hiatus so much more bearable, and made it go by so much faster. I can't believe we've got less than two weeks before we get Lost again. (And I try not to think about what I will do with all the free time I will find myself with once the last season is over. ::tear::)

@Marebabe: Jacob may have been wearing those black gloves because his hands were cold.

HAHAHAHA! I think I would love it if that were the case and we were all trying to come up with these deep reasons why he was wearing gloves. Sometimes I think this show makes us ponder a little too deeply. (Are you pondering what I'm pondering?) And you are of course going to join us for S6, right? It's not over yet!

@paleoblues: I’m reminded of the game “Clue”. To win you have to maneuver the right PERSON with the right OBJECT to the right PLACE, all at the same TIME.

That is a great idea and I think there might be something to it, but all I can think in my head is ... Ben, in the statue's foot, with the knife.... LOL!

@Nikki: either I'm totally dense, or you (gasp) made a misprint? In your post you say "Notice Jacob touches Kate's freckles? Maybe he's the reincarnation of Jacob!!" And I'm confused, because I can't figure out what you were trying to say.

@Nikki: I loved your recap of the different characters and their development over the season. You just have such a way of bringing together all the scattered pieces and making them make sense.

In FL you point out that Locke stares out over the ocean the way Jacob does at the beginning. I was also reminded of the way Jack sees Christian in "White Rabbit" standing just in the waves. (I don't remember if I brought that up before)

I have to say, that one of my all time favorite quotes from you, Nikki, was your recap of what happened after Rose and Bernard said they only want to be together... Bernard looks at Rose, Rose looks at Bernard. Juliet looks at Sawyer. Sawyer looks at... Kate. Kate looks at a leaf. hahhahaha

btw, when that scene came on as we were watching it with my parents, my Dad says, "You're looking at the wrong woman, dude." Which totally made me laugh, because my Dad doesn't talk to the TV that often.

And did you notice that MiB says, "My friend" the same way that Caesar did? Is there a correlation? Will Caesar be resurrected or inhabited or something in S6? Was he part of the opposite side against the Shadow Seekers? Or did he really not matter?

It still annoys me that 1. Jack has such a skewed vision of that "count to 5" moment. and 2. that Juliet quotes Jack's speech from S1 even though she wasn't there at all.

I still think Rose and Bernard's cabin looks kinda like Jacob's cabin.

Enough rambling on. It's going to be a very long wait until next Tuesday.......

Marebabe said...

@Sonshine: "And you are of course going to join us for S6, right? It's not over yet!" Need you ask? Wild polar bears could not drag me away from Nik at Niteland, where some of my favorite people in the whole world like to hang out! :)

SonshineMusic said...

@Marebabe: whew! just makin' sure. You sounded so final with your, "thank you"s and "so glad"s and all. I can't imagine dissecting S6 without you :) (And everyone else here, of course.)

JS said...

First - thank you. IT has been thoroughly enjoyable to get to know you few folks here.

@Nikki/Humanebean/paleoblues - I think I know that scene by heart as well. It still gives me chills. My hubs didn't understand what the big deal was and I couldn't concisely express the enormity of the scene. A person we have been hearing about since mid-season 2, who could very possibly be responsible for EVERYTHING has just been revealed to us. We are getting the feeling this is just one big game on a loop (hehe) and everyone we’ve grown to hate and love are just pieces. Free will. Destiny. LOST just went from awesome to EPIC. It kind of felt like when I saw the Matrix for the first time, and kept wondering if it were possible that we really were in a Matrix and looking for black cats and land lines. It just gets in your head.

The one thing no one's mentioned yet about that scene is the positioning of the characters. Why does MiB have to walk around Jacob to sit on the opposite side of the rock? He could have just walked straight there. When they begin their conversation (what the heck did he just eat??) MiB is in the right of the frame, and Jacob is in the left. He is talking about Jacob bringing destruction and corruption. Then, they dramatically switch their positions on the screen, and MiB is on the LEFT, and starts player hating, and really seems like the “BAD” guy, in a “I’ll kill you last” kind of way. It seems silly to ask "what does it mean", but it was such a dramatic and deliberate shift I wonder if we should be analyzing the first part of the conversation against the second part.

@marebabe - I also think there is something to the skin to skin, versus the through the clothes touch. Through the clothes people are supporting players in many ways, where Kate, James, Jack and Sun are key players. Which just reinforces Juliet’s role as a tertiary player, however much we think she rules.

Speaking of Juliet, I understand what they did, and why they did it, but she is usually so bad ass. How did they just let her get all jelly-like? It didn’t feel in character. She has been so enigmatic, and now, the mystery is gone.

Another thing that bugs me - MiB clearly came to visit Jacob at the statue around a-buck-fifty ago. So, if FLocke is MiB, whycome he didn’t know where Jacob lived???

@Gillian Whitfield/humanebean – I agree Jacob’s “what about you” to Ben was not mean or malicious but more of, “lets think about you, your choices, what you want and what you have been looking for your whole life”. Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it felt like he was asking Ben to look inward. A little subtle, I guess.

Sooooo, what are we planning to do for the next week and a half? I think I have run out of LOST sites to read and youtube videos to watch. I have already re-re-re-watched season 1. I am reading from the LOST reading list (Flannery O’Conner is kind of twisted). I have read and re-read all current publications in the Finding Lost series, natch. I have been hiding my screen at work so no one will see me reading LOST alternate theories and parodies. What have you planned for us, dear Nikki?

JS said...

sonshinemusic: And did you notice that MiB says, "My friend" the same way that Caesar did?

Yes, I mentioned that a few episodes ago, it isn't a frequently used phrase, so I think there must be a reason for it. Probably wrong, but OK.

Susan said...

Wow I can't believe we're here already, it has flown by. Nikki thank you for leading the rewatch, and thank you everyone else for the fun we've all had the last six months.

When this episode first came on, someone at Lostpedia noticed that the things Hurley gets back when he gets out of jail -- candy, money, a pen -- are the same things that Jacob gives to Jack (candy), Kate (money), and Sawyer (a pen). Don't know if it has any significance, but it's an interesting observation.

I've finally had enough of Rose and Bernard. Rose has a tendency to belittle people, especially her husband, and they both had such annoyed reactions to seeing Kate, Juliet, and Sawyer. On the other hand, Kate et. al. were so happy to find them alive. I don't know if Rose and Bernard are meant to be Adam and Eve, but that whole scene felt like a wrapping up of the Bernard and Rose story.

Fred said...

Couple of ideas who the MiB and Jacob are.

Idea 1: Man in Black, that says it all--Johny Cash. Cashwas in the US Air Force code interpreter listening to Soviet Army transmissions during the early 50s (Leonard Simms and Sam Toomey spring to mind). In 1954 he was honourably discharged (significant date). He turns out to have a Scottish heritage (think Desmond). He showed in his songs an empathy for Native Americans (like Oldham). His fathers name was Ray (we've seen that name before). He recorded for Sun records (how far back do the Paiks go?).Need it be mentioned, Cash was considered a Biblical scholar (fits well with LOST themes). Now all we need is for the MiB to appear in the first episode with Johnny and June Cash singing "Ring of Fire" to clinch this idea.

Idea 2: (I mentioned this on Angelocomets blog). What if Jacob and MiB are actually future Dharma scientists whose present condition is a result of experiments on time?

Like a lot of fans, I was so looking forward to seeing the inside of the shoe, half expecting the "Old Woman" of the nursery rhyme to be living there. It seemed so much bigger inside than from the outside, though I must admit Jacob hasn't really done much with it--a woven carpet here, a tapestry there, an open fire (the firemarshall will not be impressed). And where's the beer fridge?

Why is it Ilana and Richard don't recognize each other if they are on the same team? Are there so many Others who've never come into contact with one another? I guess so. And what are they doing off island? Obviously Latin is the lingua franca of the Others, even though Richard quickly tells Ilana that he is called "Richard" and not "Ricardus."

I also like the idea Miles thinks the incident is what Jack is actually bringing about. Jack believes becasue it allows him to be the Jack who can fix things.

When Richard says to Sun he saw them all die, we only see Jack, Kate and Sawyer around the Swan site. Hurley and Sayid are not there, so how does Richard see them "die."

Richard says he has not seen someone die and come back. But the viewer may have with John Locke falling from the building and Jacob walking up to him. It looked like Locke died and was revived by Jacob. If that's so, then the dead can be brought back on the island. Also Jacob says "I'm sorry" to a number of characters. It's like he orchestrated many of the things that were happening. Does this mean Jacob was responsible for John being pushed out the window?

Anonymous said...

Wow, this was even better the second time around!

First thing I noticed: when we're introduced to Jacob (spinning, weaving, catching and cutting the fish), the music that's playing consists of harp and violin - instruments closely associated with angels. Was this yet another way of convincing us of Jacob's "goodness" (as if the white clothes weren't enough)? It makes me even more suspicious that he might be the bad guy. :)

(PS: Where did Jacob get all that raw wool? Is there a flock on the island we haven't seen?)

What I found very interesting is that Jacob and his nemesis (MIB) both have what looks to be about two weeks' growth of beard. Not full beards, but that "I'm growing it out" look. Or, the look you get when you were stranded on an island, clean-shaven, two weeks earlier. Makes me wonder how long they've really been there, despite that they talk as if it's been ages. They *act* like castaways, too; catching fish for food, wearing simple clothes, being without even a simple pan in which to cook the fish, sitting on the beach with nothing better to do...

JS: About Mock Locke not knowing where Jacob was - maybe he was only pretending not to know, to ensure everyone believed he was still the old, clueless Locke. Or perhaps there really is a rule that the "leader" is the only one who can be granted an audience with Jacob. Since Mock Locke isn't really their leader, taking Ben along would ensure his entry into the chamber.

One thing that bugs me about the whole "incident" scenario. Allegedly it "originally" happened exactly as shown (minus, of course, a beat-up spinal surgeon and his friends shooting at everyone and throwing a bomb down the hatch). Are we to believe that a disaster of this proportion occurred...and then the Dharma folk calmly went ahead with their plans to build the swan station on the site? How did they control the electromagnetism before they installed the button? And why, in the name of all that is sane, would they rely on a couple of Dharma dudes living underground to remember to push a button in order to prevent another catastrophe when they simply could have sealed off the whole area with cement - or better yet, just avoided that area like the plague?

Small nitpick: Sayid and Jack swam quite a distance completely underwater in order to reach Jughead. One of them presumably had Daniel's journal on him at the time. Yet when they open it, the pages are dry as a bone, and don't look at all like they've ever been wet.

One final thought: Ilana mentioning that "someone else" (not Jacob) has been using the cabin. How long had this been true? Was the voice Locke heard not that of Jacob, but of his nemesis? We've never seen the entire ring of ash; maybe it had been broken before.

crazyinlost said...

I can't believe it's over! This makes the anticipation of s6 that much more bitter sweet. I've really enjoyed this new experience for me, first time blogger and all. Thanks Nikki and everyone else! I'm looking forward to s6!

@SonshineMusic-"It still annoys me... 2. that Juliet quotes Jack's speech from S1 even though she wasn't there at all."
Hahaha I know what you mean! Who is she to quote that! Jeez!

@Paleoblues-love your Twilight Zone reference! That was perfect! Does that make MIB and Jacob aliens? lol

@The Question Mark-I thought the same thing when I saw the post-316 Dharmaville/New Otherton. It still had all the Dharma stuff up and it was a disaster. I like your idea about the alternate time line. Can't say I was thinking that exactally, but I think I was headed in that direction. Makes great sense!

I FINALLY got my husband to watch the pilot of Lost-he was the last hold-out in our family. So as we've been watching s1, I saw the scene where Jack and Sawyer start to fight, then Jack walks away. (I had forgotten about this). Now I see in a different light just how meaningful this Jack vs. Sawyer fight was. I'm not a big fight scene fan, but this one was worth it!

So, what did MIB just 'eat'?

Wow! Ben actually tells the truth to Sun!

Frank-"So, you smack all your friends in the head w/a rifle, shove 'em in a boat and kidnap them?"
Ilyana-"Only the ones we like."
I'm thinking Frank is going to be significant, since he is billed as a regular next season. Yay! More Frank!

So, is Jack partially responsible for John thinking he is special, since he told RA not to give up on him? I totally expected Jack to tell him not to believe anything John says!

I'd forgotten how Sayid gets shot! But Jacob touched him (albeit thru his shirt) so he'll be okay, right? Right?

Rose! Bernard! Vincent! Hey, I just had a thought. Do the fact that Rose is 'black' and Bernard is 'white' have anything to do with the overall black/white theme of the show? Anyone have any thoughts? Fred, this seems like a great one for you!

Poor Juliet, she looks meaningful @ Sawyer, but then he looks at Kate! I'm with your dad on this one Sonshine! Can't decide who is the bigger jerk, Sawyer for looking at the wrong woman, or Kate for just Being there!

What language are Jacob and Ilyana speaking?

@Nikki-you mentioned about a previous discussion about MIB inhabiting Locke after he's pushed out of the building. I remember this, and wondered at the time the same thing. This would make sense, since I can't figure out why Jacob would want to save John, if he is just gonna be used as the loophole, unless that's just part of the 'progress'.

Yay, Sun finds the ring! I'm excited to see what part Claire plays in this all.

Right in the nuts! That's gotta hurt!

Juliet-"If I never meet you, then I never have to lose you!" What ever happened to "Better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all"?

It's Kate of the wavering winds!

Sun-"What happened to the rest of the statue?"
Ben-"Don't know, it was like that when I came here."
Sun-"You expect me to believe that?"
Ben-"No, not really."

Marebabe said...

@studiorose: You brought up some excellent points. About the raw wool, my guess is that it came from a pallet drop. (That's just silly!) Actually, remember when Jacob said, "It takes a long time when you're making the thread" or words to that effect. MAYBE the reason that's so true for him is that he has one pet goat (that we've just never seen before), and he gets all his wool from that one critter. It's such a slow process because, after each shearing, he then has to wait however long the "growing season" is to clip off any more. If that's true, I'll bet it took him CENTURIES to finish that tapestry.

Your questions about Dharma going ahead and finishing construction on the Swan and then installing human button-pushers are very good questions. I'm thinking of Radzinsky now. He was so gung-ho on the project, maybe it got finished because of the sheer force of his (stubborn) will and determination.

And you're so right about the journal being bone-dry. How did I miss that?

crazyinlost said...

I think Jacob gets his wool from all the ships he brings to the island!

Also, would Chang really be helping the Losties if they had a BOMB?! I'd think he would be questioning that!

Loved that Alternate s6 opener you showed us, Nikki!

paleoblues said...

Don't forget Jacob needs extra wool to pull over our eyes.

Batcabbage said...

@Fred: Why is it Ilana and Richard don't recognize each other if they are on the same team?

I never got the impression that Ilana was what you'd call what we've always referred to as an 'Other'. I've always thought she was an off-Island person recruited by Jacob for a specific purpose, that being going to the Island to present corpse-Locke to 'Ricardus', and check on the status of whoever was supposed to be in the cabin. Of course, season 6 will most undoubtedly prove me wrong, but that's just what I've thought this whole time.

Nikki Stafford said...

studiorose: Re: The journal being dry. Interesting, because for some reason this episode is the first time that actually occurred to me. My husband was watching along in one of his rare moments of watching along, and I said, "Hey, wait... Eloise is holding the journal, how does it stay dry?!" But if you watch closely, when she surfaces and walks out of the water, there's a bag tied to the back of her belt. Presumably the journal is in there. :)

JS said...

batcabbage: I never got the impression that Ilana was what you'd call what we've always referred to as an 'Other'.

I think the Shadow Seekers (as Nikki coined them) are a separate but related group to the Others. Jacob did recruit Ilana for this journey, and maybe she pulled this group together, but they are not a third party. She and Jacob already knew each other. Perhaps she was part of his off-island network, or they are part of a larger organization.

Nikki Stafford said...

Wait... I just realized that scene was in the previous episode, not this one. ;)

Joan Crawford said...

I know! Poor Sayid is dying in a very noble and sexy way in the back of a hippie van (he deserves better) and Jack is like "OK, let's go for a tea party, Sawyer."
If Sayid dies, I'm going to kick Jack's ass myself.

Anonymous said...

Joan, I'm with you! Yeah, let me take five minutes to talk you into letting me set a bomb; nothin' special going on here!

Did you notice that Sayid and Juliet both do this same dying gesture in which one hand shakes uncontrollably? I wondered if someone had done a "study" on what people look like when they're dying and directed them to do that for "authenticity."

(It worked! I was verklempt over both of them - even though until that moment, I didn't like Juliet at all!)

Joan Crawford said...

@Studiorose: I cried my "ugly cry" when Juliet died. When she was all "I love you so much!" ;_; times a million!
I watched it again with my husband and he started talking during it! Can you imagine!? I made us watch it again so I could cry properly while he just sat there with a furrowed brow while muttering "You want to cry?"

Of course I do!

Teebore said...

What seemed so far off when this first aired is now just around the corner. Time, like destiny, is indeed a fickle bitch.

Anonymous said...

As a die-hard Lost fan, I've been following and enjoying this blog for two years and occasionally post a comment, and hopefully will post more during Season 6.

Nikki and others have mentioned the seeming continuity misfires and other errors concerning night turning into day, and vice versa, passage of too much or too little time between scenes or events, difference in clothes being worn from one scene to another, etc.
The frequency of these inconsistencies has convinced me that they are not mistakes, as they seem to be, but reflect a constant changing of time and place that the Island undergoes
as the story unfolds. I guess we'll find out soon. Can't wait!
Word verification: favitha

tiasabita said...

There have only been three shows before LOST that have really grabbed my attention, that I felt like I would literally die if I didn't see, but nothing that has consumed me to this extent. And never until this past July would it have ever dawned on me to delve deeper into a show than 'watercooler' talk. Reading a blog ( a what?) about a tv show, much less making a comment, was just crazy talk. But all you eloquent, much-smarter-than-me, beautiful people here on Nikki's Rewatch blog have opened my eyes to an unknown realm of awesomeness and for that I thank you.

When I first saw this ep and MIB said the name 'Jacob' I thought 'finally, the mystery of Jacob will be cleared up.' Boy was I way off!

@Susan - I've never wanted to admit that I'm just not that ooey gooey over Rose and Bernard. Yeah, they have a sweet backstory and they're happy just being in love & I'm happy for them but like you I hope this is the end of their story. Of course they had to reappear at some time since we didn't see them get a flaming arrow to the chest and it was nice that the writers gave them a happy albeit corny 'ending'. How did they know it was 1977 and where were they scavenging food from? They couldn't have entered Dharmaville without being electrocuted or at least seen on surveillance, no?

When Sayid was handling the core of the bomb he had on gloves then he didn't! (If that's already pointed out, oops!)

I noticed several promises being made - Kate promises Jacob not to steal anymore, Sawyer promises his uncle not to finish the letter, Jin and Sun make promises with rings, Sayid promises to take Nadia home, John promises Ben things will be different when Jacob is gone.

Verification word - perat - what my six-year-old nephew wrote that he saw at the beach, for real - perats, dawfins and waals.

EvaHart said...

Lost is well known for it's jaw dropping, irritatingly amazing cliff hangers but this one topped them all. And the fade to white instead of black? A perfect touch.

So the big question of whether time has been reset. I'm still unsure, but surely if time is reset Locke won't have been killed, and therefore Jacob cannot be dead, it seems stupid to undo such a massive event. OTOH Jack and the others realising that they can't go back would also be weird. I think that there will be a split/parallel timeline kind of thing that would show what would happen in either scenario...or something like that. I'm sure the writers know what they are doing!

I always thought that Richard's disbelief in Locke's 'resurecction' is a bit other the top. As Not Locke says is it any stranger than an immortal man? A smoke monster? Time travel, a person that can speak to the dead and miraculous healings? Has Richrd been on the same island??!!

I loved that Sun found the Driveshaft ring, way back in season 3, I was shouting at the screen when Claire missed it. I really hope it finds its way back into either Claire or Aaron's possesion.

Did anyone else think that Juliet's flashback was odd and set her apart from all the others? I know it showed why she changed her mind and her decison with Sawyer, but to me it seemed out of place and highlighted the fact Jacob was not present in her life. Although it is possible he met her at another time in her life.

It's been great doing this rewatch with everyone, I can't wait for all our many (and there will be many) discussions on season 6!

Anonymous said...

EvaHart sez: "Did anyone else think that Juliet's flashback was odd and set her apart from all the others? I know it showed why she changed her mind and her decison with Sawyer, but to me it seemed out of place and highlighted the fact Jacob was not present in her life."

I thought that divorce flashback was a bit awkward as well. I think it occurred to the writers that practically no one (save Sayid and Jack) would benefit from a "do-over," so they had to come up with ways the other Losties would be on board with the idea. Juliet's reason, while flimsy at best, was enough to ensure that Sawyer would also go along with the plan (he must have turned his brain off in order to accept a do-over, considering all he has to lose). I still don't know why Kate went along with it, unless she was thinking, selflessly, that it would benefit Claire.

Anonymous said...

I don't know why this just occurred to me.

Richard told Mock Locke, "I'm this way because of Jacob," referring to his immortality.

So, when Ben kills Jacob, is Richard outside on the beach experiencing some kind of horror-movie death via rapid aging?

It might explain why he's pictured with all the dead characters in the LOST insert in EW this week.

PS: This is Studiorose; for some reason OpenID isn't working today.

Nikki Stafford said...

studiorose: GAAAAAH!!! I never THOUGHT of that. Oh no... not my beautiful Richard!

Will the eyeliner be the first thing to go?!

Speaking of which, I urge everyone to check out one of the bonus material bits on the last DVD, called "A Day with Richard Alpert." They follow Nestor on the final day of filming as he goes from crashing through the wall with a sledgehammer under Dharmaville in 1977 to being on the beach as the Shadow Seekers dump Locke's body. It's pretty awesome.

Blam said...

Nikki: Ben the manipulator is given the ultimate manipulation. What an amazing scene where he walks down that corridor in the statue toward Jacob’s sanctum.
"That's right, Mr. We Didn't Really Put in a Pacemaker Bomb and You're on a Different Island — I'm! Not! Really! Locke! How does it feel? I guess you can bullshoot a bullshooter!"
Verification word: eless -- 1. What I am far too often when the Internet connection conks out. 2. What the world will be if we don't work to stop the tragedy of Global Vowel Dissolution. 3. What this sntnc is (okay, it's actually a fragmnt).

Blam said...

“I thought you said he was in love with the other girl.”
“Well, yeah, but… well, he loves her, but he just loves the other girl differently. The other girl is also trying to stop her from falling.”
“But I thought you said he didn’t really love her?”
“Shouldn’t you be in bed?”

Twenty minutes later:
"And they go back in time thirty years from 2003 or 2004 to... um... 1973."
"Right. Way to rock carrying the one, sweetheart."
"Don't patronize me. Anyway, when it's three years later, in 1977, and the other people show up, they're arguing about whether they can die in the past..."
"Which they can, because it's 'later' for them in their personal timelines even though it's also 'thirty years ago' compared to when they were on that plane coming back to the island."
"Duh, Mom. I mean, if I were standing just to the 'left' of the International Date Line at New Year's, so I went from the end of the West to the beginning of the East, and it was technically not only the next day but the next year, right at 2010, it's not like if I hopped back over to 2009 I couldn't stub my toe because my toe wasn't stubbed 'one year later' in 2010."
"Would you like me to repeat that for you?"
"Shouldn't you be in bed?"

Blam said...

Marebabe: I don’t think we have any proof that the ship seen on the horizon in the opening scene is the Black Rock.
We don't. Nor do we have any proof, or even indication that I can recall, that Jacob is calling the ships (or planes) to the Island as opposed to simply relishing how things may play out once these occasional itinerants arrive. I'm not saying whether it's destiny or chance or even the Island that brings people there, but I don't know why people are assuming that Jacob summoned TBR or anything else, either.
Verification word: theden -- Where TheAntiSpaceCoalition gathers to watch theTV.

Blam said...

GW: I wonder what will happen when Not-Locke and Ben come out of the chamber, with Ben covered in blood, and Not-Locke looking sinister?
"Who's hungry? I got a nice flame-roasted Jacob goin' in there and... Oh. Hmm. Another Locke. Okay, well, ya got me; the jig's up. I'm just gonna head back into the big stone foot back there..."
Verification word: Phystio -- A largely forgotten boxing magician popular in the late 1800s.

Blam said...

Nikki: Will the eyeliner be the first thing to go?!
Ooh... And what if he really has existed outside time to an extent and takes a dirt nap across all the timelines at once? I vote for getting to see it from Sawyer's perspective!
"He's really dead?"
"I thought he was immortal."
"Bein' immortal don't mean ya can't die, dumbass; it just means ya don't age."
"Actually, that depends on which school of science fiction you..."
"Yo, Fu Manchu Jr.! This ain't a movie! He look dead to you or don't he?"
"What the hell do we do?"
"Go through his pockets."
"I found a shiny new compass... a lint brush... and... Huh?"
"I knew it! Lyin' son of a bitch..."
Verification word: brawlyst -- Ye practitioner of pugilistic arts.

crazyinlost said...

@Nikki-yes I've seen "A Day With Richard Alpert" and I love that they have to put concealer on his 'guyliner' to make it be less notable! Wonder what it would look like without the concealer! Ha!


word verif-bilence- when people thow their gall bladder at you

Blam said...

bilence- when people thow their gall bladder at you
That's frakkin' brilliant.

crazyinlost said...

@Blam-thanks, I just had my gall bladder removed last summer, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind!

word verif-hotiust-another word for 'palatable'

Juanita's Journal said...

If you're right about Sawyer being in love with Kate, then he's an asshole for using Juliet as rebound for three years. No wonder I can't stand the Triangle of Hell.

And he's in love with a woman who had refused to return to the island when Locke told her that she was needed to save his life.

That's sad.

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