Follow along! The episode guide for “LaFleur” is in Finding Lost — Season 5, pp. 120-130.So, we’re REALLY close to the end and about to set a record for most Lost discussion without a single shipper war, and I’m praying it doesn’t break out on this one (please please please pretty please no shipper talk please?) “LaFleur” is one of those great episodes that is a lot of fun to watch, but I don’t feel like I have much to say about it after other than, “Wasn’t that scene great? And when he said this, wasn’t he awesome?” And no one needs to listen to me do that. “LaFleur” acts as the bridge that gets our island folks from Point A to Point B (or should I say Point M back to Point C via 15 points in between?) and it introduces us to the DI, to Sawyer’s relationship with Juliet (which, as I said at the time, will always be problematic for fans simply because it lasts all of 4 minutes for us, and 3 years for them, so we can never properly understand the seriousness of it), and to Sawyer’s enduring pining for Kate, which is pretty obvious by the end.
Fun things I noticed:
• Damn, I meant to point this out in the earlier episode so that you could listen at the beginning of this one and tell me what you think, but when Locke first yells, “Does anybody hear me?” does anyone else think he says, “me” the way Kermit the Frog would have said it? Honestly, I walked around saying that line like Kermit for weeks. Yes, I’m strange and off-putting.
• Jeremy Davies is seriously, seriously amazing. Honestly, is there a better cast on TV right now? (Let me answer that for you: NO.)
• Thanks to Ambivalentman, the first thing out of my mouth when the episode flipped to the DI was, “F*** you, Phil.” That's a drinking game I'd gladly do.
• Watching the “deleted scene” with Miles and Juliet (Buena Vista sent out a deleted scene to bloggers at the end of November that wasn’t really one at all), again I see there was barely anything new in it, and just a comment about a birthday party.
40 comments:
For this rewatch, I watched this episode a couple times to let it soak in, so I could hopefully comprehend and keep straight all the 3-years-apart stuff. It may have helped a little. :)
Nikki, I’ve noticed the way Locke pronounced “me” as “may”, but I never made the Kermit the Frog connection. That works! I think that, when words are shouted, the pronunciation sometimes gets tweaked (cronked) a little, and that’s what happened here.
At the beginning, Phil and Jerry were so scared of “Mr. LaFleur”, I’m thinkin’ he must’ve ruled with an iron fist! And the reveal that LaFleur was actually Sawyer... well, I’m filing that surprise under “it’s too bad that we can only experience things for the first time once.”
It’s funny, looking over my scribbled notes for this episode, every sentence from now on begins with either “I like” or “I love”. So, to avoid repetitious redundancy, I’ll just list them:
- Little Charlotte running by and waving to Daniel.
- Juliet’s happy triumph over the good outcome of the delivery, mother and baby are fine.
- Juliet and Sawyer being so sweet and cute together.
- The conversation between Horace and LaFleur: “Is 3 years long enough to get over someone?” And then he sees Kate again. (By the way, the moment when he sees Kate and takes off his glasses, that’s a Josh Holloway beauty shot in my book!)
- Sawyer asking Juliet to stay for 2 more weeks.
I wouldn’t necessarily have labeled this a “feel good” episode, but in view of the notes I wrote down while watching it, I guess that, for me, it was.
J'aime LaFleur. Beacoup beaucoup!
So...you spend three years searching for the people who left the island, who might actually be dead, never giving up, always searching, searching, hoping against hope...and on the day they actually arrive and all your hopes and wishes and dreams come true, and the woman you've pined for (and who knows all about your daughter) and the friends you've missed for three years are suddenly less than 100 yards away...you...decide to settle in for the night with a good book?!
Uh...riiiiiight.
Rewatching this espisode, I recall how utterly thrilled I was by every element of it the first time around. Jerry (Jimmy Barrett from Mad Men!! Sawyer, Head of Security for the D.I.! THE STATUE!! (glad I got to sneak that moment into the Washington Post chat today) Sawyer chatting with Richard Alpert! There were just too many wonderful elements to count - and viewing them again was almost as good as the first time around.
That last scene between Sawyer and Richard got me to thinking - just how many times through the many, many years that Richard has been on this Island has someone approached him with knowledge that they shouldn't possess? Are the Lostaways the only ones? Is this the heart of the whole time loop? We've talked about the mystery of the compass passing back and forth between Locke and Richard, seemingly without a practical origin. I have to wonder if incidents (no pun intended) such as this are what gave rise to the whole notion of some people being seen as "special".
Another moment that doesn't often get mentioned - the slap-happy grin that passes from Juliet to Sawyer and back again when she is able to successfully help Amy deliver her baby on the Island. Pure joy.
I really despised the Sawyer/Juliet pairing the first time through, but with the rewatch, knowing it was going to end that way I saw it build up even from S4 and I liked it a whole lot better this time. They have some very sweet moments together.
I still want to know why the "Hostiles" wanted the dead bodies. There HAS to be some kind of significance to this!
This is how crazy I have become - I was thinking about how some people have speculated that Amy might be Amelia might be Amelia Earhart and then when Amy was on the picnic with Paul her husband, I actually looked up an article on Earhart to see what the name of her co-pilot was. Alas, it was Fred, not Paul. ::sigh::
Okay, let me just start off by making this clear: I love Lost. I love the Lost writers. I love the actors. This is all in fun. Okay, now to my reactions had I been with Jack, Hurley, and Kate.
Sawyer: Listen up guys, here's the plan. I got some clothes for you all to put on.
Me: No way. You got clothes that fit scrawny me AND Hurley?
Sawyer: I got a baggy shirt for sports day and a tight fittin one for golf, okay Frodo?
Me: But even so...
Sawyer: Nevermind that! We need to make you members of the Dharma Initiative.
Me: But don't all the members know each other?
Sawyer: We got new recruits coming in a sub, Carrot Top.
Me: Don't THEY know each other?
Sawyer: Don't worry, Piglet, they get knocked out before they come on the sub and don't meet till they get checked in.
Me: How convenient.
Sawyer: They're names are on lists, see?
Me: But how...
Sawyer: Don't worry! Mamasita who handles the lists just had a baby, and I can get your names to Juliet and have her take care of it.
Me: Jeez, you got your people better positioned then George W. Bush back on Election Day 2000.
Sawyer: Jeb Bush being governor of Florida was a complete coincidence, junior.
Me: But how will you merge us with the sub people before they're checked in?
Sawyer: Damn you're annoying, Paulo. Just trust me, okay?
***********
Anyway, I guess I'm going overboard about this, but it's just amazing how everything is in place to pull this off so quickly. It's almost like the writers were in Sawyer's corner.
Hi, Nikki and Marebabe - how hilarious that you mention John's pronunciation of 'me'. I also didn't think of Kermit but I repeated his sentence in a goofy voice right after he said it and got a good laugh at myself!!
I may have missed it but did Horace offer Sawyer the milk in the rec room or did Sawyer just see it and help himself?
Nikki and Marebabe again, the DI guys did seem afraid of Sawyer. And I thought Radzinsky kinda let Jin push him around a little too much for someone who probably is a subordinate. Do we know yet how Sawyer and his crew actually became a part of the DI? Maybe there will be an episode that shows them kicking butt and instilling fear in the DI.
Also Nikki mentioned a couple other things in the book that made me laugh! Horace did seem to act very high school about Amy holding onto Paul's necklace. Reminds me of my senior year boyfriend insisting that I burn all the pictures, letters and stuffed animals from my previous boyfriend! And what does make someone DI material? Pretty much all Horace had to go on when judging Sawyer was Sawyer's scruffy beard and hair. Uh, hello!
And the funniest line to me was Amy saying about Paul - 'He's not my friend, he's my husband.' Reminded me of a line I've heard in movies or 60s-era shows - someone will say "Watch it, lady' and the husband will say 'She's no lady, she's my wife' right before he gets knocked in the head with the pocketbook!!
Oh, one more thing and I'm done, I promise! When Sawyer was trying to convince Juliet to stay two more weeks he said she was leaving him there with Mad Scientist and Mr. I Talk to Dead People. Maybe they wanted to leave too. How did he know they were gonna stay?
Make that two more things - JW, hilarious!! And yes, oh so convenient!
Word verification - tingly!! How I'll feel on Feb 2!
First of all, JW. (stands up clapping) That. Was. BRILLIANT!! Absolute gold.
As for this episode, loved it. Loved that Sawyer called Richard 'your buddy out there in the eyeliner'. Loved the chat between them. Great, great, great episode.
Also, Nik, thanks for "F**k you, Phil." It's my new favourite game. :)
Tiasabita, good point! Miles was all for leaving; he even said it sounded like a great idea. I wonder what changed his mind? After all, he seemed to be all about money; think of how he could clean up in the U.S. in 1977, having the knowledge he does from 2007. First order of business? Invest everything you have in Microsoft. :)
Even though I don't like Sawyer, I really liked this episode.
Some things to wonder about:
Did someone find the rope sticking out of the ground and decided to dig a hole there, eventually building a well?
Why do the bodies need to be buried? In light of The Incident, is it to keep Jacob's "buddy" from taking the bodies over?
Was Horace really out of socks, and planning to borrow from his wife, or was he just snooping?
I was glad to see Jin speaking English so well, and I can only imagine that Daniel Dae Kim is glad to finally get rid of the Korean accent.
One little complaint: the doctor explains to Juliet that the baby is breech, that is, upside down. Well, babies are supposed to be delivered upside down (headfirst) and breech occurs when the baby is butt or feet first. Good thing Juliet was there since this guy knows nothing about delivering babies.
As for Sawyer and Juliet, I saw that coming the moment he swam ashore to find Juliet and her bottle sitting watching the Kahana explode. It's a motif with Darlton: Jack meets AL and strikes up a possible relationship, then Sawyer sleeps with her. Jack falls for Kate, Sawyer sleeps with her first. Jack becomes interested in Juliet, Sawyer sleeps with her.
@JW: *Thunderous applause!* Loved your screenplay. "...and the part of JW was played with gusto and verve..." So, having seen your picture, I get the "Carrot Top" nickname. But "Frodo" and "Piglet"? What're you tryin' to say? ;)
@tiasabita-I think Jin, being part of security, must have had a higher authority over Rad, this being a security situation. Just my opinion.
crazyinlost - Yeah, you're probably right! and I'm a little ADD too!!
Just a small point, but did the dynamite on the Black Rock come from the Flame station? Consider, the Black Rock sailed in 1845, while dynamite wasn't pattened till 1867 by Alfred Noble. So you can't have dynamite on a shipwrecked vessel before it was invented. However, it might be a good place to put it to keep it out of hands (like drunk Horace), and especially after Sawyer tells Horace (3 years before) about the Black Rock. So the dynamite on the Black Rock may have originated from the Dharma Initiative.
@Marebabe: yes, Sawyer sees Kate and then takes off his glasses. He was driving with the glasses on, so when he took them off, wouldn't Kate become all fuzzy. But I get the point, it's a dramatic moment. (And Sawyer needed glasses for reading; so I suppose he is wearing transition glasses to see the gauges on the dashboard).
Also, who dug the well. I think it was the sailors from the Black Rock. The well does not appear with the Tarewet statue intact. When we see the statue, James is holding a rope going into the ground (no well). Next time we see the well, it is filled in (1974). A likely bet is the sailors dug the well (maybe they found the rope Sawyer left, and they just followed it down to the frozen wheel).
@humanbean: That whole scene between Richard and Sawyer, now we know Richard didn't think much of Locke (he would have given him the Buddha test "Pick what's yours") and Locke would have likely refused to go to Mittelos Summer science classes by this time, so what might Richard have imagined hearing from someone that they are waiting for Locke. I gather a lot of perplexing things happen around Richard, and he sort of had to go with the flow.
Juliet also makes mention when she looks round the Dharma compound that she lived in one of the houses for 3 years. She then says, that most of the Dharma people died, but this suggests not all, or at least not all there. I gather we might see some of the Dharma become Others.
Fred I like your theory about the dynamite. It explains the discrepancies.
I keep thinking, if this is our real insight into the Dharma Initiative, it sure looks like a very militaristic, paranoid organization behind a facade of 70's hippie styled "peace and love." This is a compound with sirens, sonic fences, guns galore, and a television monitoring system that rivals the one in London.
Horace does seem to be a nice guy, but I just can't grasp what his job is. Horace is a mathematician, but there he is moving around between security, Radzinsky, Oldham, and god knows who else. Does Horace ever sit down and just add some numbers on the back of a napkin? And if Horace is their "fearless leader," than what is Pierre Chang?
If Charlotte died and then there was a flash, her body would have stayed in the past. Yet Daniel says she moved on. Was he confused? Also when she died, it would have been well in the past, so her body would have been exposed. We've assumed exposed bodies are taken over by the Others, or perhaps by smokie. So might we see Charlotte in some other incarnation?
I'm sorry Nikki, but I have to say I just love Juliet and Sawyer. When he brings her the flower, they are so happy. It reminded me of what Locke said to Abaddon about Helen, that at least he would have had the time he had with her. It's the same thing Bernard will say about Rose (and what he said when he first proposed to her).
Hey all...
From your original post, Nikki, I completely agree. It was a good episode, but you really find yourself struggling to find anything really meaty in there that either still confuses you, or something that the rewatch now helps you see differently. None of those were the case for me, but on the whole, still a good episode.
It was written by Elizabeth Sarnoff & Kyle Pennington, which IMO, sad to say, are probably the weaker writers of the eps. I really dig Eddie and Adam's writing and of course Brian Vaughan's.
- Getting a glimpse of the statue was one of the best points and it's great how they did it by sharing a little but not revealing too much!
- Sawyer stating that he's a professional liar! He does carry it off v.well!
- Actually, there is one line that still needs addressing for me and that is with the legendary Alpert
HORACE: I wish you would've told me you were coming. I would've turned the fence off for you.
RICHARD: That fence may keep other things out, but not us.
- Paul's necklace is of an ankh, a popular Egyptian hieroglyph for fertility and eternal life. The giant statue also seems to carry an ankh in each hand.
Well, that explains why we think alike, tiasabita!
Okay, here goes...What a fun ep!
"I think you can let go of that now"...and I agree with everyone else that the rope had to have been there all along, otherwise it wouldn't have time-traveled with them.
@Fred-I too wondered about where Horace got the dynamite. Did he plunder the Black Rock, or is there a stash in Dharmaville still somewhere?
I just read (in the latest Lost magazine) the article with Doug Hutchinson, that he was the guy who played 'Eugene Toomes' on X-Files! What a creepy part that was! And speeking of X-Files, I just watched 'Small Potatoes' the other night! Love those light-hearted eps! But Horace really is a good-guy. In the article, he mentions how nice it was for him to play someone alot closer to his own personality for a change.
IMO, mystery is solved how the others get thru the fence-just put in some ear plugs! And speaking of that, when did Amy have time to put them in w/o anyone seeing her?
Juliet delivering a healthy (albeit soon to be CREEEPY) baby-what a wonderful, gratifying moment for her, to finally see her purpose for being on the island realized!
"I have to stay with Mad Scientist and Mr. ISpeakToDeadPeople?"
This scene though I thought was very touching, and I totally bought into Suliet (sorry, Nik), even though I've never really liked (trusted) Juliet. And Susan, I didn't see it origionally, but it is totally there from the beginning with Sawyer and Juliet on the beach end of s4. I guess hindsight...But I am having a hard time thinking of Sawyer going back to his snarky old self. But I was reading the article with Josh Holloway from TV Guide (he's on the cover! And I payed $4 to read one article! Oh, well, it was worth it) and he comments when he first read "LaFleur" he was not happy with the 'contentment' and 'niceness'. But I enjoyed how much he seemed to grow and mature, and I hope he keeps some of that into s6.
And then Kate shows up to be a Party Pooper!
word verif-copyr-what Charlie threw up all over!
I wasn't even going to add a comment at this point but then saw the verification word and just couldn't resist!
"slonoreg" - Republican strategy for just about everything in the US Congress these days.
; ]
@Nikki
I totally agree with you about Jeremy Davies in this episode. He is just such a brilliant actor and I really hope we see more of Daniel next series, even if it is just ina flashback.
This episode was interesting because it had such a different tone than the last couple of episodes, and a whole load of other characters, its almost as like there are two different programmes inside one.
From this episode it's not hard to imagine what Dan would have been like after Theresa's accident. In this episode it's like he doesn't care about anything anymore, including himself. When the group hears gunfire, unlike everyone else who either ducks or pulls out a gun, Dan just stands there and stares towards the sound of gunfire. Also later when the warning siren goes off, he doesn't move at all until he is yelled at to. I would like to know what happned to make him change into the person we saw in The Variable, who seems to be quite confident and completely recovered from this episode.
A couple of nitpicks, did anyone else think that Sawyer was a little insensitive after Charlotte died? Only a few episodes ago he thought that someone he loved- Kate- was dead, so he should know how Dan feels. Yet he just makes almost mean comments about Dan's state of mind and doesn't seem in the sligtest bothered that she has just died. I know he didn't really know her or probably like her, but at least Juliet and Jin seem bothered.
Miles doesn't seem to care either, despite having knowing her the same amount as time as Charlotte.
Meta-question - is all this really happening because they left? What would have happened if they stayed? To be continued …..
I like the little nod of acknowledgement from sawyer to Juliet
Juliet isn’t a surgeon, but willing to suspend disbelief….
I remember thinking after re-watching this episode that the two people least likely to join a group or sit still (Sawyer & Kate) are the ones who end up most domesticated. There are many clues to this in prior episodes/seasons - Kate wanting to be pregnant, Sawyer wanting to play house - so in retrospect, not that surprising where they ended up.
@Fred - thanks for the dynamite discussion, makes more sense now. Rather than Horace finding and ignoring the Black Rock, the DI putting it there makes it all work.
Sawyer’s day old beard is not in fashion in 1977, is it? Wasn’t that started by Miami Vice in the 80’s? (or maybe they got it from Sawyer…)
Is Richard the leader here? If he is never the leader, then where/who is the leader? Must have been Eloise/Charles and perhaps he is just their spokesperson because they do not want to be exposed to the DI.
I am still bothered by the fact that a-Amy & Paul were outside the fence with Hostiles and b-Amy wanted to make sure the bodies were buried deeply. She must have known about how the un-buried bodies are/could be used. I think they were infiltrators, particularly since Paul had the ankh. But why did Richard want Paul's body? Did he know MiB could use it? If not, would Jacob? This flies in the face of other theories, but should definitely be kept in mind since we assume he and all the others are aligned with Jacob. Maybe not...
studiorose: While I love Sawyer's comparison of himself to Winston Churchill, him reading a book instead of catching up with what all has happened with them has just NEVER flown with me. I don't believe it for a second.
JW: You. Are. Brilliant. That was SO hilarious!!!
Susan: Did someone find the rope sticking out of the ground and decided to dig a hole there, eventually building a well?
That's what I think. I think it's a circular thing, where the rope was there because Sawyer was holding onto it, and therefore it gave them the hint of where to dig in the first place, because that rope now exists a couple of hundred years ago when the statue was still intact. I suggested at the time that maybe the rope is there because Sawyer put it there. (Someone else on here... now I can't find it... commented that it would have disappeared in the jump, but it's been established that anything they're holding onto will follow them, which is why their clothes and backpacks are still with them with every time jump.) So I think Sawyer caused the rope to be there in the earlier time, which then tipped them off on where to put the well.
Fred: I'm sorry Nikki, but I have to say I just love Juliet and Sawyer.
You don't have to apologize to me; I think they're cute together, too! :)
crazyinlost: word verif-copyr-what Charlie threw up all over!
LOL!!!
Duh - I wrote this in the wrong episode
@JW – Love it - Sawyer has some good nicknames for you – he must like you :)
word verification - yarking - yakking while talking, also done by Charlie.
EvaHart I think what makes Dan more confident in The Variable is his idea that he can change things, which along with all the other possibilities, would bring back Charlotte.
JS I think if they hadn't left, the O6 would have jumped with Sawyer's group, and they would have all ended up in 1974 anyway. My idea is that since they were supposed to be there, that's why the O6 (minus Sun) were pulled out of 316 to 1977.
One more thought about Fred's dynamite theory: Sawyer told Horace his group was looking for the Black Rock, and Horace said he had never heard of it. Of course if he's hiding dynamite in it, that's what he would say. It also may explain why Horace was so keen on getting them off the island.
The rope: It's in pretty good shape if it's been there for a couple of hundred years.
The dynamite: Check out the opening credits of "This Place Is Death". Just after Jin notices the music box on the beach the camera pans past the violin up to a case of dynamite (covered in part by Jack Bender's name). Rousseau's expedition had it already.
Juliet's expressions: She can really turn it on when she needs to. When she gets the manifest from Amy and Amy wakes up, Juliet instantly becomes all (fake) sweetness.
The guitar case: What's in it? If it really is one of Charlie's guitars is it a pre 1977 model? Or was just bringing an empty case that belonged to Charlie a good enough proxy? Was it a pre 1977 case?
@paleoblues: the guitar case still bothers me. I'm not even sure yet if its contents are important, or if it's empty, or if it's just a random, no-frills guitar.
If Amy can easily slap on a pair of earplugs and walk through the sonic fence without even flinching, then Richard and the Others could totally make their way through it.
verification word: Isesses: one of the many gods considered in the "Who does the Statue depict?" poll.
@The Question Mark: Come to think of it, we don't know who the guitar case even belonged to. Jacob had it in the cab when Hurley got out of jail and left it in the cab when he got out.
JS, your theory that Amy was an interloper is very intriguing! Maybe it explains why Horace was UBER upset when he found the ankh in her sock drawer; not so much that it belonged to Paul but that it was what it was. Being "peaceful hippies," I'm guessing the Dharma folk were at least outwardly cool with religious diversity, but it may not have actually occurred to them that anyone in their group was *that* different.
As well, your theory would explain why Amy was quick to condone killing Sayid. And why Ethan (who would allegedly be only 27 when the Losties met him) was allowed to survive the purge.
@studiorose: Maybe it was Paul who was the interloper. If he was an Other/Hostile who fell for Amy. Amy's job seems to have been processing the names for those arriving on the sub. She could have simply added Paul's name to the list. That would explain why Paul had an ankh as a necklace. Of course this is all speculation, and there may be nothing secretive about Paul or Amy at all.
@crazyinlost: Oddly, it was your mention of the cover price for TV Guide that really grabbed my attention. I've been a subscriber for decades, always renewing for 3-4 years at a time to keep my low rate locked in. (I think I'm currently getting every issue for 78 cents, or something like that.) So I long ago stopped paying attention to the cover price. Holy Moly!
@JS: You're so right. By her own admission, way back in S3 (I think) Juliet is not a surgeon. But she knew enough to handle Jack's appendectomy. Hmmm...
Sorry, studiorose, I did not read your comments before I made mine over on WHH, I swear!
@Marebabe-wow, now I really feel jipped! Oh well. We stopped buying TVG back when we got our Dishnet. Just couldn't pass up Sawyer on the cover! And my husband even indulged in me! I am SO spoiled! (and I mean that)
Help! Just had to skim read 35 comments- serves me right for forgetting to check the rewatch this week. I blame jet lag.
The scriptwriter of this episode should get an Emmy just for the word 'hootenanny'
My favourite episode of Lost for it's embarrassment of riches:
Introduction of slimey Phil
Sawyer's dimples
Coolest entrance of Richard EVER
Jeremy Davies's acting
'Your buddy out there with the eyeliner'
Not to mention all the other stuff like statues and surprise relationships and blowing up trees.
LOVE it.
Question: does the Horace-Amy-Paul triangle = the Jack-Kate-Sawyer triangle
Question Mark: If Amy can easily slap on a pair of earplugs and walk through the sonic fence without even flinching, then Richard and the Others could totally make their way through it.
Yeah. I can just picture Horace standing smugly on the Dharmaville side looking at a gang of Hostiles outside the perimeter — and then Richard puts his fingers in his ears and walks through going "La-la-la-la-la..."
...
Verification word: soliz -- Something that Tina Fey's character on 30 Rock would, like, totally do.
They must be "special" earplugs, I don't buy at all that it's that easy to get through the fence for everyone.
Also, "RICHARD: That fence may keep other things out, but not us" - by "us", he doesn't mean "the hostiles", he means "dead people". That's why Richard doesn't age; he's dead.
You know it makes sense
By arranging for the Losties to stay with the Dharma Initiative, I think Sawyer made a drastically big mistake.
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