Wednesday, September 23, 2009

2.18 Dave

Follow along! The episode guide for “Dave” is in Finding Lost, pp. 283-288.

There’s no “previously on Lost” segment at the beginning of Dave, which usually indicates a standalone episode, and it pretty much was. For all the conspiracy theorists who had been suggesting from the beginning of the series that maybe the entire series was simply the figment of one character’s imagination, this was the answer the writers gave to them. The relationship between Libby and Hurley is significant, including the crazy moment at the end where we see her in the mental hospital, and as of last season the writers said they weren’t going any further with Libby. Really? That’s one loose end you’re going to leave open? On the one hand, we could simply assume she lost her husband, gave the boat to Desmond, had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the hospital. But that’s too easy: I like to think that Libby is much more than that, and that maybe she was in the hospital “watching,” like Cindy says she and the kids are doing in season 3. I love Evan Handler, who plays Dave here and the lovable Harry on Sex and the City, and he’s without a doubt a big highlight in this episode. What saves this episode from being a mere standalone is the Benry situation happening in the hatch. Michael Emerson is, once again, glorious.

Fun things I noticed:
• While Charlie is a Grade-A d-bag through most of the season, his, “No, but I saw a polar bear on rollerblades with a mango” comeback is priceless.
• So, funny story… I gave my son, who turned two today, his first Oreo cookie a couple of weeks ago. He looked at it, his face broke out into a huge grin, and he held both sides of the cookie, twisted it, and instinctively pulled it apart to eat the icing. Unbelievable. So… he’s got one up on you there, Sawyer. Even a TWO-YEAR-OLD knows how to eat an Oreo. ;)
• Jin just standing back and laughing for a while as Hurley beats the snot out of Sawyer is what completes that scene for me.

Things that have new meaning:
• If we want to continue in the vein of looking for clues that Libby is an Other, check out her pointing out the irony of the pallet. “Wow, Hurley. Check it out. You totally just wrecked your food stash and… ohmygod… here’s a pallet of food that’s dropped to the island. Coinkydink? I think not!”
• I watched the Benry scenes completely differently when they first aired, and even when we were in season 3, but at this point, I’m convinced that Ben didn’t get caught unawares. I think the shock and horror and fear on his face is entirely calculated, even as they’re tying him up and beating him. I just don’t think you catch Ben off-guard… unless you’re Keamy and you shoot his daughter in the back of the head.
• I’d completely forgotten that Sayid takes a shot at Ben and Ana Lucia deflects it! SHOULD he have hit Ben there, and he didn’t, and destiny sent Sayid back to give it another shot? (Literally?) And YET, because Ana Lucia saves Ben’s life, and Ben stays alive, SHE will die. D’oh.
• I remember being very surprised in season 4 when the Santa Rosa hospital is shown to be in the middle of nowhere, and that Sayid could just sneak up and pop a guy right there. I always assumed it was in a downtown location… and now I know why. Dave jumps out of the window and you can hear the traffic, and he’s talking about hitting a taco stand. There are no taco stands in the vicinity of the institution we later see in S4.
• Oh, how much do I love Ben’s comment, “God doesn’t know… he can’t see this island any better than the rest of the world can.” Season 2 has a lot of religion in the first half of it, and Ben sort of puts an end to it with that line.
• Ben: “I’m done lying.” Me: “HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”
• So… did Ben press the numbers or didn’t he? Obviously by the end of the season I think it’s safe to say he did, but he knew what was going to happen, and he needed to mess with Locke for a while.
• Here’s a question: if Locke walks into the camp and declares himself leader in 1954, two years before he’s born, and Alpert follows through on checking up on him, and keeps dibs on him for a while, and then Ben becomes leader… wouldn’t Alpert at some point mention Locke to him? If that’s the case, is THAT the reason Ben comes to the armory, because his main goal seems to be effing with Locke.
• Libby’s face changes completely when Hurley reminds her that he knew her from somewhere. I really hope the writers are sort of joking on this, and we find out what she was doing in the hospital. She really wants to hide it from him, and if they were both in the institution, why hide it from him?


Batcabbage said...

...and then Ben becomes leader… wouldn’t Alpert at some point mention Locke to him?

Not necessarily. While Ben was without doubt leader of the Others, we eventually find out that Jacob, the Others' 'Godhead' or whatever, has never spoken to him. And while Ben was 'effing' with John, we know that his primary reason for being in the Losties' camp was to bring Jack over to do his surgery. I think that it's more likely that Jacob instructed Richard not to say anything to Ben about Locke, and Ben taunting Locke was just a bit of 'fun' for Ben, a bonus. Or, I could be totally wrong, which is often the case. :)

Nik, happy birthday to your son for yesterday (it's the 24th where I am now). It's my birthday today! :)

Marebabe said...

What a wonderful episode! I scribbled down a bunch of notes as I watched it this time, and I’ll just run through them in order, since most of them belong under the heading “miscellaneous”.

At about 6 minutes into the episode, Hurley is sitting there holding Dave’s slipper. Libby comes over, and Hurley hides the slipper. It occurred to me that right then would’ve been a good time to ask Libby if she could see the slipper. Was it real enough that she could hold it too? Later on, Hurley asked her if she recalled seeing him with a slipper earlier that day, and she said she didn’t remember it.

At Santa Rosa, what’s up with most of the patients wearing their jammies and robes all day every day? This is a question for those of you who have actually been around psychiatric hospitals, either as a member of the staff, as a patient, or as a visitor. Is that authentic?

Dave to Hurley: “It’s taco night!” Remember when Kate was married briefly to Kevin the cop? She’s in the grocery store, and she gets a call on her cell phone. She tells Kevin, “It’s taco night!”

I’m definitely watching Lost differently than I used to. When Sayid was reading the note that the real Henry Gale wrote to Jennifer on the $20 bill, I paused the DVD long enough to study the serial number on the bill, checking for Hurley’s numbers, searching for clues, anything of significance. Yup! I’m a Lost geek!

Eko has a large tattoo on his left shoulder. It’s hard to see, and I don’t know if that’s just because his skin is so dark, or are the makeup people trying to hide it and not really doing a very good job? Can anyone make out the design of the tattoo? It might be that seeing it in HD would make all the difference. Anybody with HDTV?

I’ve noticed that pretty much everyone on the island is wasteful of food. Don’t they remember the early days when all they had was fish and fruit? I know it would’ve taken guts and resolve, but when Hurley decided to get rid of his food hoard, he could’ve given it back to the group. Instead he dumped it all on the ground, ruining it. A few episodes ago, when Locke was taking Michael out for target practice, Michael shot one of those gallon jugs of Dharma ranch dressing. There was still some dressing in it. In “Dave”, when Sawyer was snacking on Dharma Oreos, he broke one, so he just threw it away. I dunno. Maybe everyone is figuring that Vincent will clean up any food that’s left on the ground. (Regarding Oreos, Nikki, I would like to congratulate your 2-year-old son for his culinary instincts and finesse. Clearly, he is a very bright child, just like his big sister!)

Loved Sawyer’s line about having so much food he could open up a chain of Mini-Marts. “Y’think Sayid needs a job?” Sawyer is an equal opportunity bigot. At least he’s consistent. (To be continued...)

Marebabe said...

In “Lockdown”, Jack won back all the meds playing poker with Sawyer. Yet, when Hurley was sure he was going crazy, he went to Sawyer asking for Clonozopan (or however you spell it). Maybe it was so soon after that poker game that Jack hadn’t had time to take possession of the drugs yet. He’s been pretty busy with all the drama happening with Henry and Locke at the Swan.

When Hurley is talking to Dr. Brooks about the balcony accident that killed two people, Hurley says, “But I did walk out there. And it did collapse.” I was struck by the similarity between this statement and what Sayid said at Shannon’s funeral: “But we did meet. And we did speak.” The cadence and the level of emotion were exactly the same. This realization was so profound for me that I had to pause the DVD for a few minutes and just think about this. Of course, the flashbacks are all about showing us critically important events in the lives of our Losties. But a turning point in a person’s life happens in a moment. And those moments don’t seem significant while they’re happening. But seen from a distance, in retrospect, very often we can pinpoint the precise instant that our lives were changed forever. And do we remember that moment fondly, or are we filled with regret?

There are two framed pictures on Hurley’s nightstand. One is (I think) Grandpa Tito, and the other is a YOUNG Carmen Reyes. A very nice touch.

I was rather flabbergasted when I saw that Hurley had lifted Dr. Brooks’ complete set of keys! Wouldn’t they shake down the entire hospital until the missing keys were found?! Clearly, it’s not a maximum-security hospital.

As Libby and Hurley walk away from the edge of the cliff, they’re holding hands, and it all seems very sweet. But as soon as Hurley starts watching where he’s walking, instead of gazing at Libby’s face, her countenance changes. Her smile fades, and she looks really troubled. It seems to be more than just her concern for Hurley, and the fact that she just “talked him down from a ledge”. I wonder if this is meant to be a hint about her own mental health issues, her instability.

This episode blew my mind, in a good way. I checked back at the opening credits to see who wrote it, so I’d know who to address my fan letter to. :) Another stellar episode from Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz. Those guys! Their writing is every bit as good as Damon and Carlton’s. Speaking of Darlton, several weeks ago, either just before or during Comic-Con, I read a thing they said concerning Libby. Basically, the reason Libby was doing time in Santa Rosa was because of her husband’s death, and her grief led to a debilitating depression, or something like that. They offered that explanation to the Lost fans who are desperate to know more about Libby, because everyone knows that her story has been told. According to Darlton, we’ve already gotten all we’re gonna get.

celandinehaleth said...

Marebabe said:
I’ve noticed that pretty much everyone on the island is wasteful of food. . . . . . . when Hurley decided to get rid of his food hoard, he could’ve given it back to the group. Instead he dumped it all on the ground, ruining it. . . . . when Locke was taking Michael out for target practice, Michael shot one of those gallon jugs of Dharma ranch dressing. There was still some dressing in it. In “Dave”, when Sawyer was snacking on Dharma Oreos, he broke one, so he just threw it away.

I so agree with you on this. It is like the water, they just seem to forget about how it feels to do without and waste food. There only seems to be buttermilk dressing, didn’t anyone like thousand island or Italian??

So “stand alone” episodes have no “Previously on LOST”, that is very interesting. I noticed it, but I hadn’t made the connection! Thanks

I made no notes on this one, so I’ve nothing to add. Sorry:(

Gillian Whitfield said...

I really like this episode, because Hurley is one of my favourite characters. It focuses on the emotional side of his character, instead of the comic relief. Cha-lee redeems himself for me in this episode, too. Partially.

@ Marebabe's first comment about Eko's tattoo: I could see it too! At first I thought "maybe it's sweat or water". But I think it's from his gangster days.

I think someone has something in for ranch dressing. Nikki, I remember reading this in your book.

Happy birthday to your son, Nikki!

Joan Crawford said...

@Nikki - Happy Birthday to your baby!

@Batcabbage - Happy Birthday to you, baby!

I totally think Libby was spying - she was staring right at Hurley for God's sakes - I think it stinks they are just dropping it entirely.
Woah, Sayid getting a second chance and AL dying for ruining his first one!

Batcabbage said...

@ Joan Crawford: LOL! Thanks very much, my friend. And yeah, I'm with you, the way they left Libby's storyline just hanging, and the implied significance of the last scene of this episode - very, VERY disappointing that they won't tie it all together, finish it off. Unless that's just Darlton throwing us off the scent. Who knows? They said there wouldn't be time travel, after all. And there was! Sneaky, sneaky writers....

Scott said...

I'd also like to add my voice to the "more on Libby" chorus. And it wouldn't need to be too much of a diversion. If season 6 is to be more character driven like season one, it will be important to give Hurley his time in the sun, and since he does talk to dead friends, Libby could easily be incorporated that way. Just a thought.

Nikki Stafford said...

Happy birthday, Batty Cabbage!! I hope you have a good one. :)

Oh, and just to show y'all how cool my doula was? When my son was born, I joked, "Dammit, he missed being born on the anniversary of the Oceanic crash by 2 hours!" To which she replied, "Yeah, but now he's born on the 23rd, and hey, one of Hurley's numbers!" Hahahaha!

Susan said...

OK I know some people could tell Dave wasn't real by all the clues that they threw at us, but for me it was a big shock at the end. Plus, I thought he was a cool guy (except for the "negative" part) and he and Hurley made a good pair.

So now Hurley and Charlie have both been tested by the island. Good think John doesn't know about this one.

I noticed how John freaked out at the sound of a gunshot. He really can't stand being out of control.

Loved the scene with Hurley beating up Sawyer, and Jin (and others) standing by laughing; it hasn't been that long since Sawyer conned the whole group and he doesn't have too many friends right now.

SonshineMusic said...

It's funny, I like elements of this episode, but overall it's not a favorite. I didn't even realize I didn't really like it until I saw it next on the disc and put off watching it for 2 days.

@Nikki: Ben: “I’m done lying.” Me: “HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”

Right!? Not by a long shot, buddy boy!

@batcabbage: Happy Birthday! :D

@marebabe and celandinehaleth: I agree with you about the waste of food, but I drew a parallel between Charlie throwing the statues off the cliff and Hurley dumping out the food. It's therapeutic. Besides which, if he had returned it there would have been a lot of questions about where it came from and a very messy situation to deal with causing people to lose faith in Hurley when he's the one person everyone pretty much likes. He needed to continue to be that guy.

I absolutely love how Sawyer tries to claw his way out from under the tarp and Hurley just sucks him back in. HA!

If, and I'm not sure what I think about this all, but IF Libby IS an Other, then there would have been some reason for her to get close to Hurley. I think he's more important than anyone realizes.

Batcabbage said...

@Nik&Sonshine: Thanks! I got the Shield season 6! I'm watching it now!!! Yay birthday presents!!!!

I absolutely love how Sawyer tries to claw his way out from under the tarp and Hurley just sucks him back in. HA!

That fight is the funniest moment in Lost, period. As someone else said, the look on Jin's face is priceless, and his reluctance to break up the fight and just keep watching is the icing on the cake.

...Hurley. I think he's more important than anyone realizes.

Never a truer word spoken/typed. All this talk in the rewatch just makes me wanna see season six all the more!

humanebean said...

Personally, any episode where Hurley is featured is a welcome one! Jorge plays this one brilliantly, and as Jack Bender says to him on the DVD commentary track, he brings "his character to a new level" with his performance here.

I've been wracking my [poor excuse for a] brain, trying to recall when Darlton actually said this - and the best that I can come up with was during a podcast they participated in last season - but they explained that the main reason that Libby's story has not been revisited/added to is that actress Cynthia Watros declined to return to the show. They spoke about this circumspectly, saying that they did not want to give offense or mischaracterize the situation but that basically some actors have expressed interest in returning for bit parts/flashbacks but others have let it be known that they are not interested.

This makes a bit of sense when you consider that the viewers' perception of the show as an ensemble piece is somewhat belied by the fact that the smaller roles very often have their scenes filmed with just one or two other actors and have what amounts to a few minutes of screen time, even over a multi-episode arc. It may seem incomprehensible to us that someone would turn down an opportunity to be on the greatest TV show on the planet - but Hawaii is a long haul and a day or two's work might not seem worth it.

@Sonshine - on the same DVD commentary track, Jack Bender revealed that it was Josh Holloway's idea to do the bit where he scrambles away and is pulled back under the tarp by Hurley. Also, Bender pointed out that they needed to shoot the scene several times because Jorge had a bit of trouble ramping up the anger Bender wanted to see and contrast with the comedic elements.

Evan Handler is the bomb, yo! Just the way he breathes the word, "Cheeseburgers!" is worth the price of admission. Mmmmm ... cheeseburgers ....

Susan said...

One thing I have always found odd is Hurley's placement at Santa Rosa. If you look at the other patients, they all seem out of it, including Libby. Hurley is very aware of his surroundings.

I know in season 4 he turns down Abbadon's offer of a better facility, probably because he feels comfortable with this one, but I'm wondering how he ended up at such a place in the first place.

And I sure do understand why Hurley invented an imaginary friend, he needed someone to interact with among the patients or he would be terribly lonely.

JW said...

This is one of my favorite episodes of Lost. It might be my favorite since Walkabout.

Like Nikki, I want to see a resolution to the Libby situation, and like Nikki, the line that stuck out for me this time around was, "I'm done lying".

I remember when these episodes first aired, I was really interested in whether Ben pushed the button or not, and if he didn't, why he lied about it. Now, however, I'm sure he pushed the button, and I realize he lied because he's BEN.

Fred said...

@susan: this episode with Dave had that Sixth Sense kinda feel to it. The Dave character interacting with Hurley, but not with anyone else (like at the basketball game). And Hurley, we later learn, seeing dead people--Dave, dead? (On the island, is it Dave or Esau or the Smoke Monster?)

Also there's that link of the white slipper to the pilot episode opening, with Jack running by the white runner in the tree. And later chasing after his father in the jungle.@Nikki: while the writers did deal with the theory that LOST was inside someone's head, I'm glad they didn't bring up the whole island is inside a snowglobe, like in St. Elsewhere. Though you got to wonder with Desmond's later reference.

LOL when Charlie tries to drag the wooden pallet up to where Eko is working. It takes all his strength, and Eko just picks it up like paper and tosses it to the side. Oh, by the way, where did he find a wooden pallet--this is Oceanic airlines, not Fed-Ex. Guess it was one from the camera crew.

Someone explain how Sawyer can't open an Oreo cookie, but he knows about "trust falls"? I guess it was something he did in Tallahassee, aside form all the others things that happen there.

Nikki Stafford said...

Fred: I always assumed the wooden pallet was from the bottom of the food drop after everyone had scavenged the food. And I agree about Charlie lugging the pallet like it weighed a ton... hilarious!

Teebore said...

It may seem incomprehensible to us that someone would turn down an opportunity to be on the greatest TV show on the planet - but Hawaii is a long haul and a day or two's work might not seem worth it.

That's all very sensible and reasonable, but I refuse to be sensible and reasonable: bring back Libby, finish out her story, dagnabbit! :)

JS said...

I did like Sawyer's lines and nicknames in this episode - baby napper and moon beam being my favs, as well as asking Kate why she wasn't on another adventure - "I heard Timmy fell down a well". Also thought it was funny he cried out for order when everyone was grabbing at food, when only a few days earlier he was the declared "sheriff".

Game to play - fun ways to tie up Benry (since officially we do not yet know his name). There were at least three this episode.

I laughed out loud when he said he was done lying! Never believe a liar about their lying.

I think they need to find a way to bring Watros back because, just as Australia is key, Hurley is key in a way we aren't clear on yet, and she is too important to him to not be important.

JS said...

Oh yeah, and if Dave is some manifestation of the smoke monster, why does the island want Hurley to commit suicide? This further convinces me of Hurley's importance.

I am still noodling on whether or not Ben did come for John.

@Nikki - Happy Birthday to your son! some of my favorite people were born on Sept 23rd. :)

Anonymous said...

I, too, wonder why the island (or Jacob, or whoever) tried to lure Hurley to kill himself. If he/it wanted him dead, it would have been a simple matter to kill him outright. So, was Hurley being tested? And if so, and if he passed the test, what is his reward?

tiasabita said...

Hi! To agree with many posters here I have been suspect of Libby since Day One. When Claire asked to be hypnotized to remember her kidnapping just the way Libby asks, 'Uh, depends on what you want to remember' gave me the feeling that she was reluctant to help Claire remember too much, to have too much information. And if she is so worried Hurley will remember her from the mental institution, a secret which she clearly is afraid will get out, it's odd to me that she would be trying so hard to get close to him, to even start a romantic relationship with him. I'd stay as invisible as possible - out of sight out of mind.
@ Marebabe, how interesting that you say Libby's look as she and Hurley were walking away from the cliff could have been a sign of her own mental instability. I never thought of it that way! I guess I feel so strongly that she was there on some sort of a 'mission' that I interpreted her expression as relief Hurley didn't put two and two together but fear that he was getting close, that she just needed to keep on with this charade, do her duty to whoever, get this gig over with. Again, I agree with lots of you when I sure hope the producers and Cynthia Watros are conning us all when they say she won't be/wasn't interested in furthering her story-line. And as @JS put wonderfully, Hurley is a key player and Libby's too important to him to not also be important. But then again maybe she is just some pyscho babe who really does care about Hurley and just had the bad fortune to be on the plane when it crashed.

Love me some Evan Handler!

And one more thing; @Marebabe, you mentioned Eko's tattoo. I noticed it, too, and was wondering if it maybe was like a raised keloid scar from some sort of burn or branding,
maybe a tribal or drug-lord emblem. Just a random thought!

the Question mark said...

@ Nikki & Batcabbage: birthday wishes all around!

Time to play Hilarious Charlie Pace Line!
This week: "Risotto! Nice!"

Funny story, before i had ever, ever started watching this show, i was over at a friend's house, and he watched it religiously. I happened to go over on a night when a new Lost episode was on, and it was THIS episode: the original airing of "Dave". As i sat there watching it, not knowing what the hell was going on, I asked my friend for a wuick update.
Looking back on that moment now, it must have resembled Hurley telling his mother all about the Island in "The Lie", because this is, verbatim, what my friend told me:

"well, every episode has flashbacks, and this one is about that big guy, Hurley. The bald dude in the bathrobe is a new character, I've never seen him before, but I'm pretty sure Hurley's going crazy seeing him everywhere. Oh, and this place is a hatch, like an underground bunker, they dug it out of the ground, and they found a button, and if they don't press it, like, every 2 hours, then the world ends. Oh, AND there's a monster."

Me: "WTF?!"

Marebabe said...

@The Question Mark: It's funny because it's true! Who among us Lost fans has never tried to explain this twisty, crazy show to the uninitiated? I think that's why that scene with Hurley and his mom resonated so well.

Azá said...

Another ep written by Eddie & Adam - really enjoyed this and the entire episode is a theory out there that Marc Oromaner has put forward, which I really like.

What if Hurley actually jumped off that cliff, would he really wake up? Is all this - the island- a dream?

What's more, Dave say's: "See you in another life", which I completely forgot about until this rewatch & now notice how many times it's actually said on the show, it's almost like a recurring theme and surely means something HUGE!

Jenn said...

Wow everybody! I always thought of this episode as filler. I never realized how important even the unimportant stuff is. But yes, it is Lost, and I should have known better! Haha