Follow along! The episode guide for “D.O.C.” is in Finding Lost — Season 3, pp. 144-151.Loved this flashback, and despite the NUMEROUS nitpicks I have for Juliet’s knowledge of fertility and pregnancy (see the book), I love the scene of Juliet and Sun bonding over the ultrasound. Too bad it’s about to be thrown to the dogs when Juliet betrays Sun to Jin.
Fun things I noticed:
• I still think it’s unfair of Sun to immediately suspect Jack after everything he’s done for her and everyone else. It’s always irked me that she immediately went, “Gasp! He wants to know how my pregnancy is going… he MUST be working with Ben.”
• JINJA!!!! Oh how I love Jin’s new ninja moves. I wish we could see those on EVERY show. Why has that talent been so incredibly underused on an island where we need more Jinjas?
• I heart Jin’s dad so much. It’s such a sad irony that he’s probably the best and most loving father on the show, yet A) he might not even be Jin’s biological dad, and B) his son is ashamed of him.
• I loved the little gesture of Jin’s father wiping his hand on his shirt before deigning to touch Sun’s face, as if that simple contact would have somehow sullied her. It made me love him even more.
• Sorry… I just have to say it. Juliet’s line, “When did you last have sex with your husband” is one of the most RIDICULOUS things a fertility doctor could have said. If Sun lumbered into Juliet’s office at 8 months pregnant, and she asked that question, what would it have to do with anything? “Well, Jin and I had sex last week.” “Well, then. Your baby is exactly 7 days old. Congratulations!” Huh? Does Juliet think that women clamp on some sort of chastity belt at the moment of conception and never have sex again until the baby comes?
Things that have new meaning:
• In “The Incident,” we see Sun wearing a strapless white beaded wedding dress. In “House of the Rising Sun,” she’s wearing a high-collared silk wedding dress. In this episode, the wedding notice has Sun wearing a traditional Korean robe. Why would she have opted for such a traditional robe in the photo when in the other two episodes we haven’t seen her wear anything even close to it at the wedding?
• Compare this scene to the one that’s going to come later. In this one, Sun hesitates at the bottom of the staircase, then tentatively walks up, interrupts her father confidently talking to his associates, and she walks in and timidly asks him for money. While she subtly threatens him, it’s clear that Paik is holding all the cards and he’ll make Jin pay for her request. Now, think of the same scene in “There’s No Place Like Home.” A pregnant Sun walks confidently up those stairs, interrupts her father as he’s yelling at his associates and looks completely flustered about something (someone has bought a controlling interest in his company and he doesn’t know who or how) and then announces HE will respect HER and he ruined her husband’s life and now she controls his company and there’s nothing he can do about it. On the one hand, it’s sad to see how sad she is in this scene and you know she’s probably not getting the pleasure out of this that she should, but on the other, it’s WICKED to see Paik brought down like that.
• The scene of her telling Jin’s mother not to push her or she’ll make her fake death a reality is AWESOME, and ranks right up there in the kick-ass Sun moments alongside Sun clocking Ben in the head with an oar.
• Could Mikhail be the Man in Black? What if he really died at the sonic fence and somehow the Man in Black inhabited him? That’s why he could seem to have come back to life just like Locke did. It would also explain his oddness to Charlie, taunting him and leering at him and saying, “what?” when Charlie’s talking to him… it’s like he KNOWS he’s going to kill him.
• Desmond keeping his word with Mikhail will ultimately lead to Charlie’s death.
18 comments:
Nikki - I hadn't noticed all the wedding dresses. One commenter at the time thought that one of the dresses was actually a reception dress. It may also be traditional to have your newspaper photo taken with the traditional dress, regardless of what you actually wear at the wedding.
It’s obvious that we are getting near the end of the season – the number of reveals in this episode have gone up exponentially from those in say “Expose”. Just to list:
-Sun’s baby’s father
-A partial reason why there is no one looking for remains of flight 815, since they have been supposedly found
-What happened to all the medical station equipment between Claire’s first and second visits
-That Juliet may be still working for Ben, but she is not really with Ben
It’s still amazing to me that after all Ben put Juliet and Sawyer through in the 2004 island timeframe that they were able to apparently live contentedly with the younger Ben in the earlier timeframe. Did they truly never contemplate an accident for him?
JINJA!! Hahahahahahaha! You do realize, Nikki, that you’ve invented a new word here. You should get a royalty every time someone uses it. I couldn’t agree more about Jin’s fighting skills! Loved seeing him all martial-artsy. And I’m totally with you concerning Jin’s father. In the never-ending parade of Bad Dads on this show, he really stands out. What a sweetheart!
Most of the notes I scribbled while rewatching this episode ended in question marks. So here goes:
Regarding the various wedding outfits we’ve seen for Sun and Jin, I always end up wondering if maybe they are meant to suggest that we are seeing alternate realities/timelines.
What is the monetary system in Korea? I’m thinking in terms of Euros, Yen, Pesos, etc. Because the extortion demand was for 100,000 DOLLARS. And I looked closely at the bundles of cash that Sun’s father hauled out of his safe. Definitely not U.S. currency. Did the writers include this reference to dollars just to make it easier for western audiences to grasp? If so, they greatly underestimated the fans, who would’ve gleefully researched any unfamiliar cultural reference, no matter how obscure.
(Update: I’m ahead on the rewatch schedule, and I recently watched “Ji Yeon”, in which we see Jin purchasing the giant plush panda in a toy store. In reading the subtitles, we learn that it costs fifty thousand WON. When Jin goes back to buy the second panda, he slaps down a stack of 10,000 won notes. In the audio commentary for the episode, Yunjin Kim estimates that the cash on the counter is equivalent to slightly more than $100 American. So again, I’m wondering why the writers didn’t just go with the Korean monetary system in ALL Korean flashbacks.)
Naomi could hear English being spoken by everyone around her, so why did she keep running through all the languages she knew? That doesn’t make any sense to me.
Random observations: The door to the ultrasound room looks like a bank vault door. Sun must’ve hired a PI in order to find Jin’s father, based on the file folder she had. That seems like the sort of thing one would get if one had hired a PI to snoop around.
I too love Jin's dad. How could anyone be ashamed of someone like that? (Tsk, tsk, Jin.)
Charlie admonishing Desmond that letting Mikhail go was "a bad idea" was certainly spot-on! OTOH, if you believe Desmond, Charlie is doomed no matter what, and at least this way he got to die as a bit of a martyr, while helping the Losties escape.
To reiterate what Debi said...
I'm not sure about Korea, but I live in Hong Kong and I know that here people tend to have wedding photos taken before the actual wedding - they go to a park or somewhere picturesque in full regalia and makeup and pose all day. So it wouldn't surprise me that in Korea they do this in their traditional dress.
Also, in Hong Kong brides wear the western white wedding dress for the wedding and the traditional red Chinese costume for the banquet (reception)
@Nikki: In FL you comment that Juliet would make a better plumber than a fertility doctor. My mind immediately went... or a mechanic :) heehee
And I SO ♥ Jin's father.
I definitely have suspicions about Mikhail and I was thinking the same thing about the look he gave Charlie - like he KNEW he was going to be the one to kill Charlie.
How convenient that Paik keeps exactly 100,000 in his little safe. (nitpick, I know, but it's one of those little movie/tv conveniences that annoys me every time)
I do not understand why they would bring the women to this station to die when all of their medical equipment is on the OTHER island. Wouldn't you want to keep the women where you might actually have the tools to save them? In fact, isn't Juliet working on the woman in the operating theatre? so that whole thing just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Well, one thing's for sure with this rewatch: the man in black is sure on our minds! I think we're mentioning him every other episode (with good reason, of course).
@Ali Bags: Thanks for the Asian culture info on weddings! I'll accept your explanation, no problem.
@Sonshine & JW: I agree with everything you said. It's like, I'm reading your comments and nodding my head "yes" the whole time.
@Sonshinemusic
I'm with you on this one - I've always found this episode confusing and haven't really had the energy to think about why. Thanks for thinking it about it for me!
They seem to have medical equipment at the barracks, on Hydra Island AND at this station. So, why do they need this medical station?
@marebabe
"Naomi could hear English being spoken by everyone around her, so why did she keep running through all the languages she knew? That doesn’t make any sense to me."
I thought at the time that she had concussion, but now I'm thinking she was suffering from the timetravel sickness people seem to get when travelling to/from the island (although it has always confused me that some of them DON't get it - like Keamy, Sayid, Sun etc etc, but that's a season 4 issue)
Debi: There's definitely an inconsistency in the wedding dress. In "House of the Rising Sun," she's putting on her reception dress (the one with the high collar) but the wedding dress is on a dummy near her where she's just taken it off, and it's not the strapless number she's wearing in The Incident. So that's definitely an inconsistency.
However, as Ali Bags says, I do think the one in the paper was like an engagement picture, where they posed for it in traditional garb for the announcement, and didn't put in an actual pic from the wedding day.
@NIkki: a friend from Taiwan told me couples marry in one set of clothes, and then have photos taken in a different style. I can't remember if it was traditional dress for the photo or not (it was years ago). I suppose what holds for Taiwan may also hold in South Korea.
I got to admit, I really like Mikhail (I wouldn't trust him within ten miles of me, but as a character he's so great). And what is it with all these medical skills people on the island have. This is a freaking island that cures the incurable, and they need how many doctors/field medics?
Wasn't Charlie's comments to Desmond about Mikhail prophetic? By letting Mikhail go, he will later kill Charlie. But I suppose since time is self-correcting if it hadn't been the Russian, it would have been someone else.
Jinja! That and Jinglish are my two favorite words!
Even though she arrived on the Kahana, I don't think Naomi is as dangerous as Keamy and Co. turned out to be. I can't help but wonder, if Locke hadn't killed her, would she have become a friendly freighter character like Dan, Miles & the rest? Would she have been able to supply the Losties with essential information that only she was privy to? And, being in the employ of Abbadon, would she have had any special information/messages to pass on to John Locke? After all, Widmore & Matthew were both very interested in getting their hands on Locke; they scooped him up the second he teleported off the Island.
Just like the case with Charlie and Ethan, I feel that the Losties' anger and suspicion are keeping them from learning vital pieces to the puzzle.
One cool thing I noticed is that every season seems to have it's own recurring antagonist or "villain" that causes trouble for the Losties, and it always relates to the overarching theme of that season:
SEASON 1: This season was about the Losties, the survivors of the plane crash. It could be said that the antagonist in this season was the unfamiliar, the mysterious nature of the castaways themselves, since they were constantly at one another's throats.
SEASON 2: This season opened with the Hatch, and focused on the Hatch. You could say the antagonist here was the button. It sure caused a heck of a lot of trouble for the Losties, and it was IN the Hatch.
SEASON 3: This season opened with and focused on the Others. The recurring antagonist here was Mikhail, a particularly dangerous Other.
SEASON 4: This season opened with and focused on the Oceanic 6/freighter. The recurring antagonist here was Keamy, a particularly dangerous Kahana crew member.
SEASON 5: This season opened with and focused on the Dharma Initiative. The recurring antagonists were Radzinsky and Phil, two particularly dangerous DI members.
I just thought this was an interesting pattern, and I can't wait to see how it'll apply to the final season.
Nikki re Sun suspecting Jack, that's something that struck me also. You just know that if she started experiencing bleeding or weird abdominal pains, the first thing she would do would be to run to Jack.
Good thing Jin was paying attention, the other 3 guys didn't even notice that Mikhail took the radio phone thingy.
Des makes the comment that the Losties have "killed more of them than they have of you" referring to the Others. Much as I like Des, that was a stupid thing to say. The Losties (Tailies and mid-section) have constantly been under attack by the Others and have retaliated. The Others had no interest in peaceful coexistence with the Losties except by capturing a select few.
Question Mark re Naomi, I think you're right that she is not as dangerous as Keamy. Her assignment was to oversee the science team, and while their job was to nab Ben, I don't think they were a party to the killing of everyone else on the island that Keamy intended.
I never really cared for this episode, and didn't think I'd have much to comment on, but looking at it this time thru fresh, rewatch eyes, I saw it in a new light.
@Nikki-love Jinja! Even my husband, who has only seen bits and pieces of Lost (I know he's a traitor, but he has too many redeeming qualities that I just cant give him up) thought it was great. I have shown the Jinja bit to him before, since I've always assumed it was a Tae Kwon Do move (him being Korean and all), it looks like a spinning back hook kick (had to ask my son, who is a Lost fan, and knows more TKD moves than I do).
Also noticed that Jin chases Mikhail quite a ways, but when the rest catch up they hear a noise from Naomi, and just look over there shoulder and there she is! what, did they drag her along with them?
If Jack is so concerned about Sun's pregnancy, why hasn't he mentioned it to Juliette? She acted all suprised when Sun (or Kate) told her.
@Everybody-I too love, love Jins father. He has such a gentle spirit, which goes along with your observations, Nikki. Jin can be such a poo-poo head sometimes (when he's not being Jinja!).
Jin's father pours for Sun. As I understand it (I think from No Reservations)in Korean culture, the younger is suppose to pour for the elder. She shouldv'e poured for him first, then he for her.
I thought it interesting that Jin tries to hide from Sun what her father really is like, when she already knows exactally what he is like. So, in a strange, twisted way, it's Sun's fault Jin ends up the way he did, (working for her father)!
Isn't "ya-bo" a term of endearment, not Mr. or Mrs.?
I would like to add my voice to those in praise of Jin's dad - it warms my heart to see how sweet and gentle he is with Sun. I think it is really interesting to note that Jin has the best dad of all the losties, but the worst mother. In my opinion she is a female version of Anthony Cooper!
I also love the fact that Sun cries tears of joy when she finds out the baby is Jin's even though she knows it could cost her her life.
"Jinja". Awesome. Just awesome.
This episode was so weird for me, because I hoped beyond hope that that baby was jai-li's (sp?), and when it wasn't, I was so relieved! But that's weird, right? Because it means Sun's life is in crazy danger! And I love Sun. Hmmm. conflicting feelins abound! LOL
THe scene with Sun and Jin's dad...wow...the PURENESS of that guy's smile just kills me. Tears just started streaming down my face, especially when they are having tea together. I heart him too. :)
And I kept thinking in this episode...this is the prelude to bad-ass Sun on so many levels! And I knew everyone would be talking about Jin's moves. Jinga! Love it!
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