Follow along! The episode guide for “…And Found” is in Finding Lost, pp. 197-200.Oh, how I love this episode. While Special was mostly a Michael flashback, with one Walt flashback scene thrown in, this episode was the first that was truly shared by two characters. We have their separate memories of the past – Jin as a humiliated doorman, trying to put his “shameful” past behind him, and Sun as the woman who wants to do something with her life other than settle down and have children. When the two flashbacks come together, and we flash to the present, with it appearing like Jin and Sun are both remembering the moment when they first met, it’s beautiful.
Fun things I noticed:
• Sawyer: “You think they’re gonna eat us?” hahaha!
• Poor Jin… he was knocked down so many times for his lower class, it’s a wonder that he ever got up the nerve to ask Sun out.
• I know I put this as the highlight of the ep in my book, but the look on Garcia’s face when he delivers the line that his dog crapped out $1.35 in nickels is PRICELESS. It’s like he’s on the verge of laughing, and he’s daring Yunjin Kim to do the same.
• I still love that scene of Locke suddenly appearing before Sun and saying, “Bad day?” He knows from bad days!
• This is for any of my readers who can speak Korean: Sun always refers to Jin as (this is the phonetic spelling only): Jin-soo-shay or Jin-soo-shee, depending on how she says it. I always thought this was a term of endearment, but then Jae Lee referred to him that way in this ep. His name is Jin Soo Kwon, so in Korean do you say the first and middle name of the person you’re addressing, along with “shee”? What does it mean?
Things that have new meaning:
• In the ongoing destiny vs. free will argument, Jin mocks the “destiny book.” I wondered, watching this scene, if the writers will have Sun wearing something orange when they’re (hopefully) reunited in S6?
• I used to watch the scene of Jack trying to cheer Sun up as just that – Jack trying to cheer her up. But now I wonder if there’s any significance to him wearing a fake ring? In some religions, that ring is the symbol of fidelity: you take it off, and it’s a sign that you’re unfaithful. So here’s Jack wearing a replica of the ring that Sarah originally put on his finger, and looking her in the eye and convincing her it’s the same one. We can obviously see this early on that he’s an excellent liar, which will serve him well when he pulls off The Lie of season 5.
• Michael and Libby talking about trust issues: that’s rich.
• Sawyer leaves Michael behind and tells Jin that he lives by an “every man for himself” code… THAT is the thing that will change the most in Sawyer by S5. In Dharmaville, his concern is the safety of everyone, and that every man for himself philosophy will be gone.
• When they find Goodwin, he’s on the side of a hill that has a lot of trees and looks like it's close to the jungle, but when Ben takes Juliet to see him in “The Other Woman,” the hill doesn't have any trees on it, and appears to be more in a clearing.
• I still don’t know what Eko means when he tells Jin that he’s not married, but “worse.” It could refer to a lot of things – his allegiance to the drug runners… his “marriage” to God as a “priest”… his tie to a brother that he believes he dragged down, etc.
• Why do the Others have grubby clothes? Why do none of the women apparently wear pants, and instead bathe in mud?
• That teddy still creeps me out. The bear belongs to Zack, one of the children who will be kidnapped, and who we’ll see “watching” Jack in S3. This time I noticed that the left leg of the bear was tied up completely, like it was in a cast… perhaps a symbol of Locke? (It was his right leg.)
• Kate searches the letters rather frantically, and acts as if she’s just making sure that that really is their bottle. She says to Sun, “I didn’t say goodbye.” And when Sun asks, “You mean to Sawyer?” Kate stares for a second and gives a half-hearted nod. DOES she mean Sawyer? Or did she write a letter formally saying goodbye to someone that she left without saying goodbye to? Her mother? Her husband? Tom?
31 comments:
I love this episode. It's one of the best Sun/Jin episodes in the series. The only one that comes before . . . And Found is Ji Yeon.
There are many differing views about wedding rings, and as far as I've ever heard, they're all just customs rather than religious "have-to's". I've never heard of taking off the wedding ring as a sign of infidelity. Who would advertise that anyway? For myself, I like to wear my wedding ring because I've found that most people check the fourth left digit for a ring, to see if the person is available or not. It's "an outward and visible sign", nothing more. To a lot of people, one cannot be married (or engaged) without a ring. To me, it's just jewelry. As soon as a couple decides to get married, they're engaged. And as soon as they make the commitment before God, they're married. I understand Sun being upset because she lost her wedding ring. I would be too, especially if I were separated from my husband and wondering if I would ever see him again.
Marebabe: Not true, actually... the origin of the wedding ring was as a sign of fidelity. If you look it up, that's what you'd find. I remember being at a Roman Catholic wedding once and the priest said "These rings are a sign of your fidelity. If you take them off, it is a sign that you have been unfaithful to one another." I remember thinking really? If I take it off to wash the dishes, it's akin to having had an affair? That kinda sucks...
Then the groom went and lost the ring at the reception. He came over to my husband (his groomsman) and whispered in his ear that he had to help him find it. He was completely white. We found it under a table, and the bride never knew what had happened. ;)
But yes, it's definitely seen as a sign of foreverness (hence the circle) and fidelity. That's simply the origin of it, and certainly not the general view today, as you say. :) For most people, it's just jewelry, as you say. That's why in my post I didn't say, "In all religions" or "To all people"... I simply said in *some* religions that's the view.
@Nikki: Wow! Thanks for the story about the Roman Catholic wedding. Gave me a giggle. I was brought up Roman Catholic, but I've never heard that line in a wedding. It's true, things have a way of evolving, and hardly anything stays exactly the way it was originally.
Marebabe: It gave me a huge giggle at the time too... the groom didn't find it so funny, though. LOL!! :)
@Nikki - Whoever thought doing the dishes could be so risque and exhilarating? "Shh, pots and pans - my husband is in the other room!"
Some people take the ring very seriously. My parents are Roman Catholic and I remember one time they had a big fight when I was in high school and my mom took off her ring for 3 days! We were like "Woah, she means business!"
I see a wedding ring as being a bit like Frodo's ring.
Once you put it on, it gives you an overwhelming and almost alien sense of power that you've never felt before, so if you should ever lose it, you would go Smeagol-ballistic.
But I agree with Sun: it's just a thing.
I was disappointed at the end of this episode, when Sun was getting all emo over finding her ring, that Kate didn't lean over and give her a hug. Would have been a great moment.
I'm curious as to why the hotel manager would interview an applicant for the position of doorman. Doesn't he employ some personnel flunky to do all that for him? Did he also interview each of the maids, cooks, wait staff and busboys? I tell ya, when he made that comment about "smelling fish," I SOOO wanted him dead. Lofty bastard.
LOVED the scene of Jin running smack into Sun after being distracted by the other lady in orange. Great timing, as they both had been recently rejected and were dejected.
@Nikki: I don't know what Jin-shee or Jin-soo means, but Jin's name is Jin-Soo Kwon (properly, it should be Kwon Jin-Soo). Interestingly, Sun's name is Paik Sun-Hwa (in Korea, women do not take their husband's name).
Okay, how does Jin begin to pick up English so easily. I mean, he's about having a full blown conversation with Mister Eko. Sure, I get it, he's catching words: "wife," "name" etc. It makes the story move along a lot easier, but just days ago (by LOST time) Jin was being beaten up by Michael, and from his perspective everything people were saying was gibberish.
I like how the idea that what is lost can be found if you stop looking for it (very Zen). How often this occurs in the episode. Looking for Michael, he is "found" (notice Eko says "we lost his trail") by Jin when Jin is drinking from the stream. Jin and Sun "find" each other when they aren't looking for each other (love at first sight). Sun "finds" her ring, when she digs up the bottle to give it to Kate. Finally, at the waterfall, Jin says to Michael, "You find Walt," meaning Michael will not find Walt now but will in the future. Also Eko says to Michael, the Others won't be "found" unless they want to be--does this imply they purposely walked by Eko and Jin to reinforce the impression they are as poorly off as they are?
Goodwin's body seems out of place. Wasn't it on a hilside? So what's it doing in the jungle? Continuity error?
Jin goes to work as a doorman at the Seoul Gateway=>"soul gateway" or entrance to heaven? The religious images keep coming. His employer says Jin stinks of fish, putting us in mind of Jacob (also Christ's claim to his disciples to be fishers of souls); notice how many fish Jin catches with the sea urchin bait. When Jin lets the older man and his son in, he is called a "good man".
I had a few more thoughts about this episode. I like how everyone was so kind to Sun when she was all upset. In the process of being sympathetic and supportive, Jack, Hurley, and Locke all revealed more of their characters and bits of their backstories. It was nice, and I found myself liking them all even more.
One of Eko's lines really stood out for me. Speaking about the Others: "They don't leave tracks." Well, then, they must not be corporeal beings, because all earthbound creatures leave signs. I still don't know what to make of this statement. It may be that, at this stage of the storytelling, the writers wanted to really pile on the mystery about the Others. They succeeded! I remain yours truly, Mystified.
I thought it was obvious Kate didn't get to say goodbye to Sawyer. She just wasn't comfortable admitting her feelings for him to anyone since he wasn't exactly well regarded among the Losties. There's also the issues of her viewing him as a 'bad boy' whom she had no reason to like, especially not with a 'good guy' like Jack around.
I'm not so sure Sawyer in season 5 was so much different than Sawyer in previous seasons. (Have you forgotten that he left everyone behind when he got on that sub with Juliet?) His proclaimed 'every man for himself' philosophy has been contradicted by selfless and even heroic acts from the very beginning of the show. Just a few episodes before he saved Michael's life and I believe he might've left him behind this time because of Michael's attitude or because he got scared of starting to care too much.
Nice briefing, Nikki & great comments from y'all!
I cannot agree anymore, the reuniting flashbacks = beautiful writing
I, too, was wondering about that passing between Jae-lee and Jin, where Jin is referred to as 'jin-shoo-shee'. I asked back on one of your posts Nikki in my comments about "Chag-i-ya" & what does that mean (http://lost-rewatch.blogspot.com/2009/08/120-do-no-harm.html), but no-one responded :'(
I was a little puzzled too about Eko's response to Jin, but I'm guessing it means he is a priest since he pauses in his response and it is at that point that he realises.
Jack trying to help Sun made me laugh, I get a strange feeling seeing these characters on screen, since when we were trying to figure out who the second man was she blamed for Jin's apparent death to her, we thoguht it may be Jack and we know Jack at least thought so. These two never seem to click/have an understanding/respect for each other as much as other characters?
It's strange how Jin has gone all 'I'll do anything for my mates having once been completely the opposite and yes hasn't he picked up English very quickly indeed :)
As Fred says, Jin's name is "Jin-Soo". I know a fair number of Koreans, and all of the ones I know have at least two syllables in their first names---i.e. "Jin" and "Sun" would be very odd names for them to have. Yunjin Kim has said in some interviews that she convinced the producers to add a second syllable to both Jin and Sun's names to make them sound like actual Korean names.
I believe the "-shi" suffix is similar to Japanese "-san". It is not unusual for Japanese wives to call their husbands "firstname-san", so I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar in Korea.
I liked this episode, but it didn't really give a whole lot of new thoughts for me.
One thing is that I always think of the Lost Boys from Peter Pan whenever Eko and Jin are watching them go past - you know, with Michael's teddy bear. Weird.
And Eko says, "They don't leave tracks." but Ethan did, because they follow him.
Great comments. All of your comments on the rings (esp Joan's and Question Mark) had me in stitches.
But now on to serious matters!! Ahem.
studio: Really great catch on the owner hiring the doorman. I would agree that it would probably be someone further down who would do it. Unless the guy is a crazy micromanager, and figures he should have final say about the person who will give the first impression of the hotel. But I agree; when he pulls that tag off and then tells Jin that he smelled fish, I wanted Anthony Cooper to push him out a window.
Fred: I agree. As I pointed out in my summary, Goodwin's body looks like it's in a different spot for some reason. By "The Other 48 Days" it looks a little more correct.
Studiorose, I think Kate didn't hug Sun for dramatic reasons. While I agree that it would be very natural for Kate to hug her, the scene focused on Sun's reaction and was a powerful and moving scene that I think would have been diminished if Kate had "intruded" into it.
Fred re the location of Goodwin's body...Lostpedia has a whole page of continuity errors like that if you're interested. It includes things like the change in the Swan's interior, and the exterior location of the hatch from the time when John and Boone first found it to the later scenes where they work on it.
My grandmother refused to have her wedding ring removed, even when she broke her wrist and her hand swelled to, like, an unimaginable size. I think it's her way of staying connected to her husband—my grandfather—who's passed.
(BTW she's just fine and dandy now—this was some time ago)
Jin's well-being has been called into question, and the chances that he may be gone are great. Even though Sun says it is just a thing, I believe that in her heart it was something that helped her feel connected to Jin.
Remember later in the series that rings will be significant again for Jin and Sun.
@Susan: thanks for the tip, I'll browse through Lostpedia for the continuity errors.
The errors suggest not everything was entirely planned in the entire story arc.
Also, the focus on rings, a ring would never have a gap, or break, suggesting a loophole. Was Jack's idea to buy a copy of his wedding ring a "loophole". I mean the ring looks the same, so it could fool someone (Sarah) into thinking it is the same one--like Locke in Season 5.
On the subject of Kate looking at all the messages in the bottle, what was her purpose for doing so? Sawyer didn't write a message; he had no reason to. Was she looking for her own message? And if so, why? She knows what she wrote and to whom it's addressed. If her purpose was to remove it, why?
Also, Michael gave Sawyer a hard time for reading the messages (as did Sun to Kate), but at some point *someone* would have had to read them all, if their raft trip was successful, in order to determine who was to receive them. And likely they were all rather boring variations on the same theme: "I love you, I miss you, I'm okay."
The errors suggest not everything was entirely planned in the entire story arc.
Darlton and the other producers have long said that while they've always had the broad strokes of the story mapped out from the beginning, a lot of the little details they've made up as they go along (or as they like to put it, Lost is a road trip, and they know their ultimate destination, but they don't necessarily know in advance which route they will take to get there).
I definitely think something like the placement of Goodwin's body counts as one of those little details and can easily be chalked up as a production error.
This is definitely one of the big "Others mystery" episodes: so many questions sparked by that one brief scene (and I sadly feel like most of the questions will go unanswered, as I definitely think this episode occurred at a point where they were just throwing everything they could think of at the audience to make the Others as mysterious as possible).
I kept noticing orange things in the episode, Jin's flower when he is working as a doorman is an orange rose, the only things on the table for Sun's date are two glasses of orange juice, Michael has on an orange shirt which I thought was funny, perhaps he is Jin's love.
I also loved getting to see how Jin lived before he married Sun. His apartment was such a youthful bachelor pad and his roommate seemed like so much more of a young bachelor than he did. It's hard to imagine Jin as anything but an intensely driven and serious person so to see his apartment and think of him doing Hurley things like watching TV and eating junk food and hanging out with friends is difficult.
Regarding Eko's comment: "They don't leave tracks" - it's something I took notice of too, now that we know the Others better. It reminds me of the situation with crop circles back in the 1980s. There was this thought that the circles couldn't have been manmade, because they were so big and the creators never left footprints. Then the hoax was revealed: they are, in fact, easy to make (with a board and rope) and the people making them do indeed leave tracks, though they try not to make them obvious.
My theory is that the Others' mysterious nature has made it easy for the ignorant to believe things about them that aren't quite true.
One of the season 2 DVDs has the Others walking through the jungle on the menu page. If you leave it on the menu page long enough, then another Other will be following the Others, wiping away their trail with a palm branch.
@J.W.: I think you're onto something there. Eko's line should've been, "They don't leave tracks...THAT WE CAN FIND." As with anything, some people are more skilled than others. And tracking isn't the only discipline involved here. Some people practice and become very good at leaving minimal signs of their passage through a landscape. "The better to mystify you, my dear."
@Susan: Ooh, thanks for sharing! If I ever saw that before, I forgot all about it. I'll be sure to have another look at that.
This is definitely one of my favourite episodes. Of course, Jin is one of my favourite characters, and I think I love all of his flashbacks.
I found what Locke said, about how the only way to find something to to stop looking for it, very interesting. It reminded me a lot of what Rose or Bernard (I can't remember which...) said in the season 5 finale, about how it didn't matter what happened as long as they were together. They stopped looking.
Nikki: I loved what you said about Sun wearing orange in season 6! That would be great!
An explanation of the honorific Sun uses with Jin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_honorifics
when you're calling someones name in korean, you don't normally just say the person's name like you would in english. Instead, you add -ssi (pronounced shee) at the end of the person's name. But that only applies when you know each other personally and on the same level of class. And actually its abnormal when jin calls sun "sun" or vice versa. They're suppose to say Jin-Su-ssi or Sun-Hwa-ssi. It drives me crazy when that korean fertility doctor calls Jin "Mr. Kwon", cuz they would never do that, its very informal. I think though the reason for the abnormalities is more for the english speaking viewers so they dont get confused. Also, ja-gi-ya or yo-bo (which they occasionally call each other) are just names married couples call each other, like honey or sweetie.
And if you notice, Sun sometimes adds -yo after her sentences and thats just a polite way of speaking, usually when talking to someone of higher class, talking to a stranger (out of general politeness), and sometimes when a wife speaks to her husband (because men are considered head of household). hope all that helps!
and by the way, Daniel Dae Kim's korean isn't that great. Sometimes I have to actually read the subtitles to understand what he's saying cuz of the accent. but still decent! and i love his character!
oh, one more thing, Jin-su and Sun-hwa are full names. Usually korean names have two syllables, while kwon and paik are their last names.
I used to watch the scene of Jack trying to cheer Sun up as just that – Jack trying to cheer her up. But now I wonder if there’s any significance to him wearing a fake ring? In some religions, that ring is the symbol of fidelity: you take it off, and it’s a sign that you’re unfaithful. So here’s Jack wearing a replica of the ring that Sarah originally put on his finger, and looking her in the eye and convincing her it’s the same one. We can obviously see this early on that he’s an excellent liar, which will serve him well when he pulls off The Lie of season 5.
When "he" pulls off the lie? Don't you mean all of the adult members of the Oceanic Six?
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