Thursday, July 23, 2009

1.12 Whatever the Case May Be

Follow along! The episode guide for “Whatever the Case May Be” is in Finding Lost, pp. 75-79.

Season 1 established the standout characters by how many flashbacks they got – we’re only on episode 12 and we’ve already had 2 flashbacks for both Kate and Jack. I’ve never been a huge fan of this episode, even though it has a lot of great stuff in it, simply because of the way Jack and Sawyer treat Kate. It makes my skin crawl every time. Both of them take the case from her as if they’re somehow above her, chastising her like she’s some stupid child who needs discipline. Yet both of their actions speak loudly about their characters – Sawyer takes the case first because he thinks there might be something in it for him, secondly because he can use it to flirt with Kate (she keeps coming back for it, and he likes that) and thirdly because it gives him the upper hand in their “relationship,” or so he thinks. Jack, on the other hand, is a complete dick. He accuses her of lying and withholding information (like he’s not?!), and the moment she first tells him they have a problem he turns to her and shoots back, “WE have a problem, or YOU have a problem?” I’m sorry, Doc, but who the hell crapped in your corn flakes this morning? A day ago you were out in the jungle with Kate as the two of you chopped down Charlie, and the two of you were victorious in bringing him back to life. And now you’re biting her head off? One of the only problems with season 1 is that the writers were different on every episode, and there wasn’t that cohesiveness that was there now. One writer would write Jack as being annoyed with Kate’s mere presence, but in the next episode they’re chatting like equals. Next episode she’s hot for him, and then suddenly he’s all angry at her again.

Fun things I noticed:
• Sawyer asks Kate if she’s the navel-gazing, no-fun mopey type. I love his subtle reference to Jack here.
• Why is Sayid still referring to Claire as “the pregnant woman” when they’ve been on the island for 2 or 3 weeks? You’d think the one person who has been kidnapped might be a name everyone would know by now.
• Oh, Sayid. I love you. LOVE YOU. I love his character, I love his development through five seasons, I think Naveen is a brilliant actor... but I will never, ever understand his attraction to Bitchy von Ditz. It watered down his love for Nadia and made me lose a little respect for him. It was like when I found out David Boreanaz was married to an Irish screenwriter when he started on Buffy, and then became famous and dumped her and married a Playboy bunny. Sigh. The light of these people just kinda dims in my eyes.
• I’ve never understood why Shannon didn’t just say “Finding Nemo,” rather than going on about the fish movie.

Things that have new meaning:
• Sawyer tells Michael he better start looking for a runway. Did anyone else yell out, “hey, they’re building one over on the Hydra island!”
• Locke says, “The easiest way isn’t always the best.” Talk about understatement of the century, coming from that guy.
• I’d said that in the beginning of season 1 it’s hard for me to reconcile soft, sweet Rose with angry get-off-my-lawn Rose of the season 5 finale, but you can see the nice bridge here. She’s full of tough love, pushing Charlie to get off his ass, but the next minute holding his head while praying with him. I’ve always adored that scene between the two of them.
• Sawyer’s line, “Physics, my ass,” has a COMPLETELY different meaning in season 5!! Isn’t it weird that the one guy who had a basic understanding of physics (insofar as how it impacted construction) is gone by the time anyone needs it? Poor Michael...
• I’d forgotten that the writers played with our expectations of “what Kate did” throughout the first two seasons the way they did with Locke’s paralysis. By this episode fans thought she’d shot the guys in the bank robbery and that’s why she was being hauled in. Or maybe it was the guy she “killed”... (we know now that she didn’t kill Tom, but put him in the position of being killed).
• The line, “There’s a fine line between denial and faith” is a very important line for the rest of the series; Jack is a man of science, but when he sees the island disappear at the end of season 3, he insists that it didn’t, even though he just saw it happen. If there was ever a captain of denial...
• The end of this episode is beautiful (see, I really do think there’s a lot to love about this episode, even if overall it’s not one of my faves) with the way Kate plays with that airplane. It shows how her idealized childhood is still playing a role in her present. If you really want to see this scene used well, check out the “childhood” trailer for season 6, if you haven’t already.
• Kate looks at the toy plane with a lot of sadness in her face (and we know how why that is) which reminded me of her comment in "316," when she sees Christian's shoes in Jack's house and asks him why he holds onto something that makes him so sad. You'd think she of all people would already know the answer to that question.

45 comments:

Writing is my Passion said...
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Writing is my Passion said...

I HATED Jack in this episode! Just . . . ugh. He had no right to treat Kate the way he did in this episode. I mean, what did Kate ever do to him, hmm?

Now knowing what was in the hatch, I kind of want to tell Locke what would happen in season 2.

Katey said...

I was really angry at Jack too during this episode, just to join the club here. I'm love Jack and he's one of my favorite characters because of his complexities, (along with Kate, Sawyer and Jin) but that doesn't mean I don't want to stuff his head into the polar bear cave sometimes.

I had a huge debate with some other Lost fans about this episode because they were apparently venomously angry at Kate during this episode and thought Jack was totally in the right...for dragging the deepest, most painful secret out of a woman who he's know for about two weeks by yelling at her and telling her she's a liar because she hasn't already spilled her life's sob stories at his feet. Mmmhm. Totally.

One thing that puzzles me about Jack, and maybe this is an incosistency in the plot that the writers should have addressed (maybe not though--this is Lost) is that he spends all this venhement energy trying to pry Kate's secrets out of her by force and verbal abuse and then drops it strangely about the middle of season two...never to worry about it again. I understand that he deflates his head a bit and she makes great gains towards defending herself emotionally from him, but still--they live together and he proposes and yet he is still seemingly unworried that she could be America's Most Wanted #1. I guess time-travel, monsters, immortal men and creepy child-napping Others could've drop it out of his mind maybe, but it still irks me just a little bit when I think about for too long...

Seabiscuit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I completely agree about the whole Shannon/Sayid thing. Did he love her? Really? What about Nadia? Shannon does the whole "You'll leave me" thing and he is all "No, no never" - but what if she had lived? Would he have given up on Nadia for Dumdum? He seems to get over the whole Shannon got killed thing pretty easily - but then again, who didn't? Heheh...

Joan

Seabiscuit said...

I really do think this episode has the most useless flashback in the history of Lost, beating even Nikki and Paulo's in Expose. And Kate is my absolute favorite character. I think that the FB could have been better spent on another Kate-on-the-run story or even a childhood fb to show us all what a real douchebag Wayne was, and perhaps garnered some more sympathy for her and her motivations.

I thought it was interesting to note, though, that it seemed Kate was for the first time in her life dealing with men who were not the stupid, gullible fools she was used to conning and using. It was more interesting how each man reacted to Kate's lies, to Jack they were cause to fly into a fit of contempt and rage, while to Sawyer it was practically a turn-on. She wasn't one of those stupid, gullible women he was used to conning and using, and he liked it.

I thought(and still think) it was good for her to have someone in her life who could see through her lies, and perhaps this can help her to start telling the truth more often, or it can just drive her to learn how to lie better. XD Either way, she wins.

I did not, however, like at ALL how Jack treated her. This was the episode where I started really hating him. And I, too, was disgusted with how those two went back to being best buddies in the next episode. His aggression was borderline abusive and that needed to be addressed.

I did like Sawyer's character development, I was thrilled pink to see him going out of his way to look out for Kate and her safety in the jungle. It was nice seeing a softer and selfless side to the snarky con-man I was already falling in love with. And their playful swim under the waterfall was pure joy to watch.

It really killed me to see Kate end the episode so sad and depressed and alone when in the beginning she was so happy and carefree. Sigh.

Jenn said...

You know, I never really thought much about the Sayid/Shannon pairing—but you're right. It totally cheapens his love for Nadia. Wow. What a totally new perspective I have!

Katey said...

Well, I got so caught up in Jack-talk I kind of missed the episode itself. Whoops!

Thoughts:

**I KNOW, huh? The Sayid/Shannon thing is like...I don't even know. I was floored when they went through with it, watching this episode and the next I kept telling myself "no, no--they're not that naive, they won't do that" but they DID! Sayid is this awesome, like, 30-something year old ex-torturer from Iraq on the search for his long-lost love who shot himself in the HAND for and then suddenly miss Legally Blonde takes off her bikini top and cries about being good for nothing and he falls in LOVE!

...sorry, it's a sore issue for me. I've had heated debates with one of my friends who enjoyed the Shannid trip and I'm still a little touchy. I thought Naveen and Maggie were amazing during those scenes though, which makes me sad because they acted it so well...but it just didn't work because it was SAYID and SHANNON.

**I'm a big fan of Tom's model airplane (and a big fan of Tom too actually...) and I LOVED getting to see it introduced again for the first time in this episode. I don't know what it is, but there's something so perfect in it to symbolize Kate and who she is. Beyond all the fugitive, murderer stuff, she's really so innocent and child-like, and even all the "horrible" things she does have this sort of child-like quality to them--her logic is just like a little girl who doesn't understand why people abandoning her isn't her fault, or why her mom wouldn't want to leave a man who hurts her. And the plane, it just such a beautiful symbol of that child-like soul Kate has. Gah, I love it. It's just such an interesting complex for a character--like a five year old in a grown-up body with no concept of repercussions or why people do what they do. Anyway, I love that plane. And I agree that that final scene was a beautiful one--Jack must have been pretty darn confused (and I'm GLAD he was!) watching her finger that little plastic plane after all she'd gone through to get it. HA! There's your big fat secret Jack--whadaya think?

**This is really random but I always wondered why every guy on Lost seems to be under the impression that a thin cotton shirt is simply far too heavy to be swam in but thick jeans are going to be a piece of cake. They always strip off their shirts (which I don't mind--don't get me wrong!) but leave their pants on...I've swam in blue jeans and I can tell you firsthand, it's like wearing lead pants. Now they could always compromise here and take off both the shirt and the pants and I'd have nothing to nitpick.......

**I loved Sawyer's line just before they hit the lagoon where Kate shushes him and he goes "What? You smell blood on the wind?" =P Aww, I love me my snarky little con man. :D

@Seabiscuit:
That was a pretty pointless FB wasn't it? I guess the only purpose for it was to build up suspense about what was in the case and through the fans for a ringer about 'What Kate Did'...but in the end, we really didn't gain much from it. I felt like it almost took away from her characterization to have whole scenes where she seemed like an uncaring criminal out for a joy-ride and some quick cash, even though they righted that in the end to some degree.

I enjoyed Sawyer's character in this episode too, even he was horrible to Kate too--at least we know he was acting like a jerk because he was hopelessly smitten with her, whereas with Jack--I love the way Nikki put it as "who the heck crapped in your corn flakes?" =P

Anonymous said...

I have a bought 2 of your Buffy/Angel books, so it disappoints me to see the untrue statement regarding DB. David divorced his first wife in late 1999 and didn't meet his second wife until early 2001. He did not leave her for any one. There are plenty of interviews to back this up, if you would care to research the facts. Maybe you should edit your post with the truth regarding this. Thanks

Susan said...

Katey, why do you justify Sawyer's behavior to Kate as being smitten with her, but not Jack's? He's just as smitten as Sawyer is, and Kate knows it. Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that Kate, when she couldn't get the case from Sawyer, went to Jack who she knew would help her because of his feelings for her. In other words, she used him like she will do throughout the next four seasons.

I'm one of the few Lost fans that likes Kate, and Evangline Lilly does an awesome job with her, but sometimes Kate just makes me want to scream at the TV. Despite all her practice, she is a terrible liar. She's OK when she makes it short and sweet, but when she elaborates, she can't hack it. She should have told Sawyer, "It's mine," and walked away with it. Instead she sits there with it, looking all over it, and Sawyer realizes she knows nothing about it and it's not hers. If she had just walked away, she would have been able to go over it in private.

Katey said...

@Susan

Well, I should rephrase it I guess to say that in this episode, Jack is acting very "who poo-pooed in my corn flakes"--I'm a hardcore Jater so trust me, I agree that Jack was already smitten with Kate too, if not more than smittene! But my point is that just within this episode he acts out of completely different place than the usual Jack! Sawyer's characteristics match up with the continuity of the other episodes, but what I think Nikki was talking about (forgive me if I'm wrong Nikki!) and definitely what I was talking about was how unjustified and out-of-the-blue Jack's behavior is so soon after having a number of very touching moments with Kate (the Charlie scene)! It's just seems so random and it really is horrible, especially up against the knight-in-shining-armor Jack we've been basking in for eleven episodes. Like Nikki mentioned, I'd chock it up to the writers still trying to find their continuity groove with characterization--going back and forth between different writers and directors from episode to episode makes it hard to keep up with what a character should really be acting like rather than the individual writer/director's personal interpretation. I feel like they've got it down well enough now, but some episodes like this one are just...shocking! Like I said, I definitely understand the side of Jack that was coming out in this episode and it's a legitimate part of him, but I think they forsook a lot of his nicer qualities in exchange for verbally abusive, really really angry Jack without really giving a decent reason why he made the jump to hyper-speed...but then again, maybe the writers had a reason for it, maybe Jack was supposed to be having a bad day, maybe he was just stressed about Claire...maybe they were foreshadowing Jack's future, bearded adventures--who knows?

But yeah, I understand what you mean--I didn't intend for it to sound like I was justifying Sawyer's actions on a whole and condemning Jack's on a whole--it's just the way it is in this ep alone. It's like Sawyer keeps on sailing in a way that makes sense and Jack just goes "blip!" and blows a gasket for 42 minutes of his season-life. Besides, being smitten with Kate doesn't "justify" (I put it in quotes because I hardly mean that Sawyer should be let off the hook when I use that word for him--I wanted to sock him where the sun don't shine, but at least he got head-butted a few times) Jack's actions anyway. Sawyer is kind of pathetic like that but Jack is, or at least seems until season five, above that sort of thing. He shows his love for Kate in his own way but it has never been by tearing her down or making her sob hysterically and then leaving her to it--he's the nice guy! Sawyer's the one who hits the woman over the head with his club and drags them back to his cave--not Jack! That's what I mean...I was so infuriated with Jack when he left her crying in the caves and didn't even say anything...ugh.


About Kate and her "It's mine" flub...yeah, she could have gone about it better. But then, that's Kate. She's very impulsive, she acts on the present and what seems most useful at the time and doesn't really think about anything else, that's another aspect of the "child-like" stuff I'm always talking about, I guess. Kids just do what seems best at the time and if it screws them up later--well they just deal with that when the time comes, they don't really think ahead until the situation has shifted. And the thing is, she doesn't really seem to care or notice when things blow up in her face anyway. Like she never really talks back to Jack even when he's being totally unfair, it's like it never registers that he might be wrong. She never defends herself at all...it's like she's desensitized to cruelty and mistrust and just rolls with it, making it up as she goes along. That obviously changes though later on when she gets a better grasp on her self-image and, with that, she gets better at lying not lying.

Anonymous said...

@ Katey

"miss Legally Blonde takes off her bikini top and cries about being good for nothing and he falls in LOVE!"

I snorted on my coffee!

Joan

Susan said...

Good points Katey and I loved the "42 minutes of his season-life" line!

It's true that Lost is like most other TV shows in that the writers and creators are finding out who their characters are in the early episodes. And I see your point about Jack, it is kind of out of character for him. I always saw it as him knowing Kate was using him and lying to him, but his behavior is a bit extreme.

This is why Lost is so much more fun doing a rewatch and discussing it with other people!

Katey said...

@Susan:
That's true, I think Jack did know that she wasn't being completely honest with him--but I think it was hard for him to separate the fact that someone might be an introverted, secret-keeping type of person by nature from the idea that anyone who hasn't told him every detail of their lives to a T must be purposefully decieving. It's something that is a big struggle in their relationship I think--Jack and Kate, they're not use to dealing with each other's personality type. Jack is this total type A, control-freak, heroic, brave, mostly honest (honest according to his mind--he believes the things he "withholds" are for the other's own good) and Kate is a very introverted, closed, confused type of person who doesn't lie out of spite but because she's been taught it's her only defense from emotional abuse. They kind of miss each other on the emotional playing field...but I think they've been figuring it out lately, especially in season five. I have high hopes for next year--if not a happy ending, at least a nice meeting point where they can see eye to eye for once in their lives! They deserve it--both of them.

/Didn't mean to get all Jatery...hehe.



@Joan

Sorry about your coffee...my sarcasm flares up when I'm emotionally charged. Lost tends to do that to me. How pathetic is that we all spend such incredible amounts of time over these characters and plots that don't even exist? (I'd say I only speak for myself but then again, we are all a part of 5-season rewatch so, I figured it was mutual =P)

studiorose said...

I think Jack's treatment of Kate in this episode was simply because he is comfortable with her, moreso than with anyone else, and knows that she'll be "with" him no matter what. He blames himself for Claire's disappearance, and he's taking out his anger and frustration on someone who he knows won't dump him like a hot potato. It's like the guy who treats his colleagues and customers like kings all day at work and then comes home and yells at the wife.

Anonymous said...

@ Katey

I know! I was thinking today: What about when it is over? Forever over.

And I got mildly panicky! I was all "Woah, cool out, we have one more season and then, after that, no one is allowed to say it is over. Ever."

I can live in denial for a long time. Ha!

Seriously, it can't end. Hehehe, Joan

Katey said...

Seriously, Joan! We'll just keep telling ourselves it's on hiatus...maybe ABC.com will give us a ARG with an indefinite ending so we can pretend season 7 is "just around the corner!" =P

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with Seabiscuit, this flashback was so bad to be laughable. It's like it was written by a child.

Susan said...

Studiorose, I like your take on Jack's treatment of Kate, it makes sense.

Seabiscuit and Anonymous, this is probably my least favorite of Kate's flashbacks. I guess it highlights her obsession with the plane for us, and we are probably supposed to think the robbery is what she did, but considering that she gets 3 flashbacks in the first season, we could have done without this one and let another character have a second flashback.

A.G.Wooding said...

You've got a point about Sayid falling for Shannon being a low point for his character, but when you look at it on the otherhand, Shannon falling for Sayid was one of the best things about her personality. I never really liked Shannon until she started showing a bit of a softer side to Sayid so you've got to respect this episode for that at least.
I also love Hurley laughing at Sawyer. It was a nice change.

JW said...

This episode, Whatever the Case May Be (otherwise known as Jack Starts Treating Kate Like She's Six) the first episode of Lost I ever saw.

I watched with eager anticipation as the three stories, Island Kate, "real world" Kate, and Sayid/Shannon stuff drew to their conclusions... assuming we'd get a "rosebud" ending that would suddenly make sense of everything. Instead, the writers slipped us a MacGuffin. I thought that was an even better ending and have loved the show ever since. (I'm weird.)

Ali Bags said...

I'm staying just up the road from that waterfall Kate and Sawyer swim in - I think I'll have to go check it out tomorrow.

(@Katey - hopefully I'll encounter a shirtless and trouserless Sawyer)

Katey said...

@Ali

Well, if you do, you'd better take a picture for me! ;) But mind you, Jack or Jin wouldn't be bad either--I'm not picky. =P

studiorose said...

Something else occurred to me...why has Kate gone to such incredible lengths to retrieve (twice) an object that causes her anguish every time she looks at it? Is she secretly a masochist?

Katey said...

@Studiorose

Heheh, masochist Kate. She's certainly not afraid of pain...I can just see her and Sawyer playing chicken: "Punch me in the gut--come on! I dare you!"

But anyway, in seriousness here--I think it's like any memory of a loved one who's died--you look at a picture or item that reminds you of them and you feel sad obviously, but you do it anyway because they're a part of you and you long to remember them, you miss them--it's a force that just compels you towards the things that have been cut out of your life. I think that's how it is for a lot of things with Kate--even though they cause her pain, she's inexplicably drawn to them, i.e. her mother, the idea of "settling down", Jack, the airplane/memories of Tom, etc. They're all things she wants so badly and wishes she could have but they're also things she knows or at least feels she can't have (obviously Tom's dead so that's impossible--but with Jack, it's just her own feelings that it's impossible). That's how I see the airplane.

Another thing though is I think it's something like her "rope" so to speak--everyone needs something to connect them to reality and I think that the airplane is sort of her piece of the real world throughout all the insanity she's been through because it bears the memories of times when things made sense to her--back when her mom hadn't given her up, Tom was alive and with her, the father who she really loved was still, as far as she knew her real father and Wayne wasn't a part of the picture yet...things were sane and I think it was the only thing she had left to hold onto once that life was gone. So in a way she needs it to be Kate, it fills her with guilt and reminds her of a lot of painful things but she needs it--or at least needed it in the beginning in order to have something to hold onto while she found her footing in the strange and scary environment around her.

Again and I know I've said this a million times, but it's another aspect of Kate's child-like side, children tend to invest themselves emotionally in inanimate objects and can't find a hold on reality sometimes without it--i.e. a stuffed animal or blanket or toy, etc. It's kind of like that, I think we all have something like Kate's plane, but usually, once we've "grown up" we carry it in our minds and memories rather than something physical. But Kate, as mysterious is she is, just needs to see it and hold it...I dunno, it's Kate.

grubstreethack said...

Katey - regarding jeans, you're right about swimming in them, but I've always found it ridiculous that they are actually WEARING THICK JEANS ON A TROPICAL, HUMID ISLAND. Real survivors would have cut them down to shorts in the first week.

Of course, a far more egregious offender is Richard Alpert. Business pants and a long-sleeved shirt (also, sometimes, with an undershirt) may be stylish but it's hardly practical.

Also Charlie wears a hoodie. Get it together, wardrobe department.

Chelsea said...

I had never connected Sawyer's "navel-gazing mopey type" comment with Jack, but it fits perfectly. Love it! :D

neoloki said...

Kate was being very manipulative and Jack had every right to question even attack her motivations. She wanted something from him and Jack demanded some truth for that help. Maybe if Kate didn't act like a child by manipulating all the men in her life to gets what she needs, jesus I mean we just saw her con a man into robbing a bank for her, Jack wouldn't treat her like a child. I have no idea how anybody could justify her actions here.

Ali Bags said...

Regarding jeans again - we never get to see Sawyer's legs. Even when he emerges from the sea after jumping from the helicopter he's wearing those damn jeans. Is there something wrong with his legs? Are they a bit skinny one wonders.

Anonymous said...

Josh Holloway has the cutest "sympathy tummy" ever right now :) I wonder if he does have chicken legs? Did you know that calf implants are popular among me? Isn't that strange?

Joan

Anonymous said...

Gah! Among 'men' - not me. I personally have no problem with chicken legs...just with checking my work.

Joan

studiorose said...

We've also never seen Sayid's legs, which disappoints me no end; nor Hurley's, for which I'm grateful.

Marebabe said...

Regarding the discussion of our beloved men's legs, I seem to remember a time when we got a peak at Sawyer's legs. Forgive me, but I can't remember exactly which episode this was, but it's the scene in New Otherton with Kate and Sawyer talking in bed. Kate tells him that she's not pregnant, and his expression of relief is a bit too joyful for Kate's taste right then. Anyway, I think Sawyer was lounging about in a pair of silky drawers and nothing else. True, we didn't get a really good look at his legs in that scene, but it stands out in my memory as the one time that he wasn't in his usual jeans or (later on) Dharma coveralls.

Katey said...

Mmm--you're right Mare! And if I'm not mistaken, there's a scene in this season--season one--where we first see him conning and he's in bed with a woman and then has to hurridly put on his pants because he's late for a "meeting". I don't remember it very well but I'll have to check on that one...

But seriously, it's a valid point, right? Jeans are insanely heavy when wet. It makes no sense =P

Nikki Stafford said...

Anonymous: You're absolutely right; DB didn't leave his wife for the Playboy bunny. I've edited my comment... I wrote it quickly, and didn't mean to suggest his current wife was a homewrecker. That said... it doesn't change my mind one bit. So he left the screenwriter and then met a Playboy bunny and married her. Um... doesn't change anything.

Nikki Stafford said...

Katey: Your comment just made me make another link to season 5 (I'll add it to the original post), but you talk about how she holds the plane and it makes her sad, but she holds it anyway. Your comment made me suddenly remember Kate's comment in "316," when she sees Christian's shoes and says to Jack, "Why hold onto something if it makes you sad?" Interesting coming from a woman who went to such great lengths to find a toy plane that... makes her sad. ;)

Katey said...

@Nikki:

Ooh, good catch. Exactly: all these people, they can't let go of things no matter how much crap happens to them because of it. Destiny? Mmm...

Ali Bags said...

Thanks Marebabe and Katey for reminding me of the 2 scenes in which we did see Sawyers' legs. Will have to watch them again - just to check you are right that is.

Ali Bags said...

By the way, just got back from Waimea falls where Kate and Sawyer swam. As with most locations it looks much smaller in real life and the Life guard tent, and dozen swimmers with body boards kind of spoiled the effect!

(No half naked Sawyer either)

Jennifer said...

Sawyer says something to Jack regarding Kate..."she lied, Brother." Again, holy shades of Desmond! I'm not sure if it's foreshadowing or just how these writers use language (I have never heard men use that term towards one another) but that's the second reference to Jack as Brother (first one was by Hurley.)

And the plane was in box 815!

Susan said...

Nikki every time I watch 316 I think of Kate's airplane when she makes the comment about the shoes.

Just to add to the men's legs discussion, I'm up to Exodus on the rewatch, and when Hurley wakes up in the hotel before his plane flight he's wearing pajama shorts. I never would have noticed or remembered it if we hadn't been discussing guys' legs already ;)

kirathena said...

I realize Shannon's personality doesn't exactly endear her to people generally but I was a bit surprised so many people don't like her at all.

I agree that Sayid's sudden infatuation with Shannon is odd given his years-long quest for Nadia. But, given that he thought he was stuck on an island with no hope of seeing Nadia or anyone else again it kind of negates the relationship somewhat in my mind.

However, I seem to be one of the few people that really liked Shannon. Her sudden death marks the first time on Lost that I was in total shock & couldn't believe what I was seeing. Also, might be the first time I cried at a Lost episode. Her obnoxious, spoiled behavior that eventually morphed into a softer side really endeared her to me. I felt like I understood her character and while she was no Juliet or anything I found her much less annoying than Kate or Jack by far in any episode.

Katey said...

@Kirathena:
I actually like Shannon too--at least I started liking her once she began growing as a character and stuff. It takes a lot for me to hate a character--in fact the only two I really have grown passionate in hatred for are Walt's Mom and Locke--and even then I still have moments of sympathy. I only started hating Locke after the whole hatch controversy.

I'm sure there are other people out there who like Shannon too, I know some of my friends do as well. I liked both Shannon and Sayid but it doesn't make me like their relationship any more, like I said--I thought the actors played it brilliantly, the dialogue was fine, the scenes were great, it just didn't work for me because it was Sayid and Shannon and I just feel like it made very little sense. It's one of the only things Lost hasn't been able to sell me on. I'll take polar bears, Egyptian gods, smoke monsters, immortal Spaniards, whatev, but Shayid just didn't do it for me. =P

kirathena said...

@ Katey, I'm glad to know others like Shannon and I am not alone! I agree there is an improbable notion to their relationship in Sayid giving up on Nadia so quickly when he appeared to be so close to finding her (his reason for being on the plane was he thought he had finally located her, right?)

As for Shannon & Sayid specifically as characters I think the relationship worked. Shannon needed a strong male figure who wasn't going to use her & could bring out the best in her. Sayid tends to fall for women who need help that he can protect even from themselves. He has a strong sympathetic strain which seems at odds with his torturer mojo. The women are always messing up his cold, calculating plans. The most ready example is the economist lady or even Nadia. Anyhow, in that light the relationship developing between these characters, especially given Sayid's preference for vulnerable, beautiful woman who have hidden depths.

Anyhow, just my opinion but it is good to know not everyone dislikes Shannon! The only person I can truly say I hate is Kate. Unfortunately, I am starting to cringe everytime she comes into the scene. lol.

The Rush Blog said...

Where you even paying attention to this episode? Kate lied and tried to manipulate both Jack and Sawyer to get her hands on the case. How on earth did you expect them to react to that? Her behavior made my skin crawl, not Jack and Sawyer's. What made my skin crawl even further was that she planned and carried out a bank robbery that ended up endangering a lot of people, in order to get her hands on that damn airplane.


It's like you guys are bedazzled by Kate's girl-next-door looks.